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Old 11 Aug 2014, 19:29 (Ref:3443528)   #751
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As ever an excellent, comprehensive article from Gordon Kirby, with a constructive look at F1, IndyCar and NASCAR.
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Old 11 Aug 2014, 22:16 (Ref:3443566)   #752
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There is a rock of sence in what Gordon Kirby has written.

I have for some time believed that the only way to open up regulations is to put a restriction on the cost of racing and car construction. Restricting downforce can also be achieved with some clever rules. Large rear tyres would also help to restrict downforce as well but you have also to ensure the engines have more torque/power than the rest of the car can handle.

I have not been a fan of spec car racing in all but the most basic of classes for some time as identical cars will all be fast or slow in the same places meaning there is no real performance difference between the cars.

If you have a multi chassis formula it will allow cars to have performance differences around any given track even if the actual lap times are similar. Some cars will be better under braking while others might have greater straight line speed while another might be very good in slow corners etc.
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Old 12 Aug 2014, 02:05 (Ref:3443592)   #753
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There is a rock of sence in what Gordon Kirby has written.

I have for some time believed that the only way to open up regulations is to put a restriction on the cost of racing and car construction. Restricting downforce can also be achieved with some clever rules. Large rear tyres would also help to restrict downforce as well but you have also to ensure the engines have more torque/power than the rest of the car can handle.

I have not been a fan of spec car racing in all but the most basic of classes for some time as identical cars will all be fast or slow in the same places meaning there is no real performance difference between the cars.

If you have a multi chassis formula it will allow cars to have performance differences around any given track even if the actual lap times are similar. Some cars will be better under braking while others might have greater straight line speed while another might be very good in slow corners etc.
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As ever an excellent, comprehensive article from Gordon Kirby, with a constructive look at F1, IndyCar and NASCAR.
What power do you believe should have a present F1?
1500 HP?
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Old 12 Aug 2014, 02:50 (Ref:3443603)   #754
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I've never understood the "F1 needs more power" argument.

The DFV gave us years of absolutely FABULOUS racing, with less than 500 HP.

The problem is now the cars have too much grip, and 500 HP is nothing when you are pushing around that much aero drag. Halve (or less) the downforce and you will more or less halve the drag, and for straight line speed, it's like having several hundred more horsepower.

I think the going back to bias ply tires is a little extreme. I love four wheel drifts, but technology should march on, and radials are more advanced than bias ply tires. The back ends would still hang out any time a driver felt under pressure. They just wouldn't have the cool driving sideways attitude at every turn.
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Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens.
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Old 12 Aug 2014, 09:34 (Ref:3443638)   #755
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Originally Posted by hondafan37 View Post
What power do you believe should have a present F1?
1500 HP?
Its not the actual HP that counts but a mixture of torque, power and grip levels.
In the current F1 situation the power to grip ratio is giving us a lot more sideways moments. I suspect there is more development in the power units and as long as tyre grip and down force do not develop faster than the power units I suspect we will have interesting racing.
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Old 12 Aug 2014, 11:02 (Ref:3443653)   #756
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I've never understood the "F1 needs more power" argument.

The DFV gave us years of absolutely FABULOUS racing, with less than 500 HP.

The problem is now the cars have too much grip, and 500 HP is nothing when you are pushing around that much aero drag. Halve (or less) the downforce and you will more or less halve the drag, and for straight line speed, it's like having several hundred more horsepower.

I think the going back to bias ply tires is a little extreme. I love four wheel drifts, but technology should march on, and radials are more advanced than bias ply tires. The back ends would still hang out any time a driver felt under pressure. They just wouldn't have the cool driving sideways attitude at every turn.
500hp, hard tyres, no aero, no assistance from electronics and steel brakes makes for interesting racing. No radios meant drivers had to manage it on their own which would be a novel concept these days. Better or worse? That is in the eyes of the beholder.
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Old 12 Aug 2014, 14:15 (Ref:3443684)   #757
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Without the introduction of the current V6T-engines Renault and Mercedes-Benz would have left Formula One, as last year's V8-engines were dinosaurs. Do not expect any manufacturer to stay in Formula One if this series is turned into an open-wheel version of NASCAR.
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Old 12 Aug 2014, 23:08 (Ref:3443814)   #758
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Better or worse? That is in the eyes of the beholder.
How can there be any question if it was better?
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Just give them some safety rules, limit the fuel (to control the speeds), drop the green flag, and see what happens.
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 01:32 (Ref:3443835)   #759
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Without the introduction of the current V6T-engines Renault and Mercedes-Benz would have left Formula One, as last year's V8-engines were dinosaurs. Do not expect any manufacturer to stay in Formula One if this series is turned into an open-wheel version of NASCAR.
The manufacturers were not involved in F1 for many years, and frankly it was better without them!

As long as F1 can attract a huge audience and provide a marketing vehicle for the manufacturers they will be there, currently F1 is being held hostage, and ruined by said manufacturers.
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 04:49 (Ref:3443850)   #760
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Interesting piece regarding the effect of brake by wire on Vettel:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28674.html
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 05:15 (Ref:3443853)   #761
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The manufacturers were not involved in F1 for many years, and frankly it was better without them!

As long as F1 can attract a huge audience and provide a marketing vehicle for the manufacturers they will be there, currently F1 is being held hostage, and ruined by said manufacturers.
There have been multiple engine manufacturers involved in F1 since the mid '80s, the difference now is the regulations demand that if a team requests a supply of engines, then a manufacturer must be willing to provide them if they are not already supplying too many outfits, e.g. we have Ferrari supplying Sauber and Marussia and Mercedes supplying Force India and McLaren.
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 10:57 (Ref:3443924)   #762
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
500hp, hard tyres, no aero, no assistance from electronics and steel brakes makes for interesting racing. No radios meant drivers had to manage it on their own which would be a novel concept these days. Better or worse? That is in the eyes of the beholder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daUJc70CjhA



cf. Comments at the end
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 11:26 (Ref:3443932)   #763
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The manufacturers were not involved in F1 for many years, and frankly it was better without them!

As long as F1 can attract a huge audience and provide a marketing vehicle for the manufacturers they will be there, currently F1 is being held hostage, and ruined by said manufacturers.
In what way do the engine manufacturers effectively rule Formula One?

The concept of Formula One as a marketing tool only is outdated. In the current economic situation stakeholders need more to justify their presence and thus expenditures.
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 13:14 (Ref:3443941)   #764
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In what way do the engine manufacturers effectively rule Formula One?

The concept of Formula One as a marketing tool only is outdated. In the current economic situation stakeholders need more to justify their presence and thus expenditures.
The engine manufacturers determined the current PU configuration with batteries and KERS to try and legitimize the fraud they are perpetrating on their customers and the environment with batteries and KERS by legitimizing it at the pinnacle of motor racing!
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Old 13 Aug 2014, 13:18 (Ref:3443943)   #765
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Is this the driving standard of modern F1 drivers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opzzn9sl1kU

Alexander Rossi at Circuit of the Americas in a Lotus 49.

Point and squirt and crunching the box!
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