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Old 14 Jan 2018, 06:47 (Ref:3792626)   #16
coppice
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is one or two drivers a season doing a race with a team they're aligned with through sponsors really that regularly though? i'd like to see it more as well, but with the f1 calendar getting bigger and bigger it's a bit harder to fit something in and do it justice unless you're someone like alonso.
Not really - they don't do testing any more and have the life of Riley compared to their Seventies counterparts .Huge money and a fraction of the risk.

It wasn't unusual to combine F1 with, Indy 500 , Can Am and sports prototypes- and rallying too in Vic Elford's case . But as most people who watch F1 don't seem to have much of a clue about life outside F1 , or the sport's history , they started bleating about diluting the brand and similar guff when Alonso decided to do what his predecessors did .
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 08:21 (Ref:3792632)   #17
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
In the good old days fulltime F1 drivers drove F1,F2,F3 sports cars,saloon cars and did Indy as well.
Not like todays snowflakes who only do Facebook outside F1....
Excellent post. We often saw the likes of Moss, Hawthorn, etc drive saloons, sports cars, and Grand Prix cars at the same meeting, and next weekend probably be doing World Sports Car races at Monza, Nurburgring, or Le Mans.

Proper RACING DRIVERS, not Formula 1 Divas. Back in the day if you signed for Mercedes or Ferrari you raced where ever and what ever the factory told you to. I am sure the Targa Florio in a Testa Rosso Ferrari would soil a few items today.

It was not coincidence - it was the job.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 08:42 (Ref:3792636)   #18
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Proper RACING DRIVERS, not Formula 1 Divas. Back in the day if you signed for Mercedes or Ferrari you raced where ever and what ever the factory told you to. I am sure the Targa Florio in a Testa Rosso Ferrari would soil a few items today.
Isn't that exactly the same as today? You drive what the factory tells you to. Or, more accurately, you're not allowed to drive what the factory doesn't let you. It's hardly the drivers fault that the team paying them a ludicrous amount of money isn't going to let them go elsewhere. This is why Kimi wore a gorilla mask and entered a snow mobile race as James Hunt - he wasn't actually allowed to do it.

It died off purely because of contractual issues. Not F1 divas. Very few drivers have actually said they don't want to drive other cars. One of the few who has said that, ironically, is Mark Webber, who was very disparaging about other series.

It is sad we don't see more cross over. But I do think we're unfairly blaming the drivers for that.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3792641)   #19
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Isn't that exactly the same as today? You drive what the factory tells you to. Or, more accurately, you're not allowed to drive what the factory doesn't let you. It's hardly the drivers fault that the team paying them a ludicrous amount of money isn't going to let them go elsewhere. This is why Kimi wore a gorilla mask and entered a snow mobile race as James Hunt - he wasn't actually allowed to do it.

It died off purely because of contractual issues. Not F1 divas. Very few drivers have actually said they don't want to drive other cars. One of the few who has said that, ironically, is Mark Webber, who was very disparaging about other series.

It is sad we don't see more cross over. But I do think we're unfairly blaming the drivers for that.

Good point, it is the current attitude to F1 that is wrong I suppose, it is the be-all-and-end all of motor sport too many people. Having Bottas/Hamilton or Vettel/Raikkonen sharing sports cars and saloons in varies series would do the Manufacturers no harm at all.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 10:00 (Ref:3792643)   #20
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Good point, it is the current attitude to F1 that is wrong I suppose, it is the be-all-and-end all of motor sport too many people. Having Bottas/Hamilton or Vettel/Raikkonen sharing sports cars and saloons in varies series would do the Manufacturers no harm at all.
I'm guessing (and it is a pure guess), that the money has caused it. When sponsors start paying £50m a year to be on a car, they can make extra demands, and the teams have to obey.

So Mobil 1 say to McLaren "We're paying £50m to be on the car. With that £50m we want Lewis in the car, no excuses". So suddenly, McLaren aren't allowed to not have Lewis in the car. So if Lewis goes and hurts himself in a quad biking...sorry, tennis accident (looking at you JPM!), then they aren't fullfilling that contract.

Then take it a step further. Mobil 1 also specify that Lewis isn't to wear a Shell icon. Fair enough, but what if Shell are the official fuel supplier of the Race of Champions? Well he's not doing that now, because the expensive Mobil 1 contract said so. RoC contract with Shell says all drivers must have a Shell icon, so the driver can't do it.

But Mobil 1 do want him to do Mobil 1 things. So Lewis does a car swap with Tony Stewart because both have Mobil 1 stickers on them.

When the money goes up, the people paying the money get to make all sorts of demands. Some crazy, some not so crazy, and the result is it limits the driver as an employee. If budgets were smaller, the sponsors pay less, and thus get to have less say in things.

I do think a lot more F1 drivers would do more things (Hulk and Alonso certainly do, Stroll is, and Vettel did RoC), but they simply aren't allowed.

It gets more complicated when manufacturers are involved. With Alonso, the fact he was even allowed to test the Toyota TS050 at Bahrain last year was a minor miracle given he was a Honda driver. But it was clear from the off that he would not be allowed to do any interviews or press work during the test, and the only quotes would come directly from Toyota (and probably OK'd by Honda during the process). That caused a bit of a fuss in the WEC paddock when a couple of journalists spat dummies that Alonso refused to speak to them, and criticised him quite heavily for it. Obviously Fernando is just sticking to the Honda guide lines, and the journalists were so wrapped up in their own self importance that they couldn't see passed the potential hit rate on their website should they get an exclusive Alonso scoop. (disclaimer: most journos understood and knew what was going on. Only a small handful were arsy about it).

It's kinda sad, but that's the way it is. Ideally budgets will drop, and sponsors will have less say and we'll see drivers move about more again.

Edit: there was a funny one in NASCAR a few years back. Coke and Pepsi both sponsor a good chunk of NASCAR Drivers and races. In victory lane, if Coke sponsored the race, when the car pulled in they'd stick a coke sponsor board on top of the car. If a Pepsi driver won, they'd get out of the car and deliberately knock the coke sponsored board off the top. It'd look like an excited act where the driver got carried away, but someone did a montage video of them all and it was pretty obvious. Sponsors were dictating how a driver acts in victory lane.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 11:16 (Ref:3792648)   #21
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Rather than moaning that it's not like the old days, can't we celebrate the fact that things are shifting again and just enjoy it?

Would have been unthinkable to see 2 active F1 drivers at the Rolex 24 throughout the 2000s and most of this decade.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 12:00 (Ref:3792664)   #22
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
But I do think we're unfairly blaming the drivers for that.
I think you're spot on.
I've just been reading about Michele Alboreto this morning, and he took park in Le Mans 24 Hours both before and after his F1 career, but not once he'd joined Ferrari's F1 team in 1984 (he did a couple of Le Mans while at Tyrrell prior to that).
He also took part in the Indy 500 after F1.
Anyway, he plainly liked Le Mans otherwise he wouldn't have gone back after his first time, so I can't think of a personal reason for him not doing it from mid-80s to mid-90s, apart form his team boss probably saying "no!".

I realise this is an incredibly small sample size, and other drivers did take part in F1 and Le Mans during the same period, but just funny timing that he joined Ferrari in 1984, and his Le Mans visits ended until his F1 retirement.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 12:02 (Ref:3792665)   #23
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I think you're spot on.
I've just been reading about Michele Alboreto this morning, and he took park in Le Mans 24 Hours both before and after his F1 career, but not once he'd joined Ferrari's F1 team in 1984 (he did a couple of Le Mans while at Tyrrell prior to that).
He also took part in the Indy 500 after F1.
Anyway, he plainly liked Le Mans otherwise he wouldn't have gone back after his first time, so I can't think of a personal reason for him not doing it from mid-80s to mid-90s, apart form his team boss probably saying "no!".

I realise this is an incredibly small sample size, and other drivers did take part in F1 and Le Mans during the same period, but just funny timing that he joined Ferrari in 1984, and his Le Mans visits ended until his F1 retirement.
It's a small sample, but it's worth mentioning. Here's another one - immediately after leaving F1 for NASCAR, Montoya ran in the Rolex 24 at Daytona. Did he suddenly get interested in it, or was he suddenly allowed to do it?
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 12:53 (Ref:3792676)   #24
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The last double dipping of F1 drivers at a GP weekend would probably have been the wonderful BMW Procar series in 79/80. They ran BMW M1's as a one make series as a GP support category with predominantly F1 drivers of the era in the entry, in I believe just European rounds.

Even in those days sponsorship contracts shaped the field with the Procar series running on Goodyear rubber. Those F1 drivers contracted to Michelin F1 teams were precluded from taking part.

A brilliant series none the less.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3792678)   #25
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Mention of F1 drivers doing F2/F3 reminds me of the whole controversy of Nelson Piquet Jr not being allowed to compete in an Euro F3 race a couple of seasons ago. Surely that would have been a good benchmark for young drivers? Wasn't it Clark or Hill who discovered Rindt by competing against him in an F2 race in Crystal Palace? I know Hunt discovered Villeneuve by competing against him at Trois Riveres in F.Atlantic
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 14:45 (Ref:3792697)   #26
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Mention of F1 drivers doing F2/F3 reminds me of the whole controversy of Nelson Piquet Jr not being allowed to compete in an Euro F3 race a couple of seasons ago. Surely that would have been a good benchmark for young drivers? Wasn't it Clark or Hill who discovered Rindt by competing against him in an F2 race in Crystal Palace? I know Hunt discovered Villeneuve by competing against him at Trois Riveres in F.Atlantic
Rindt surprised us all that day, a great race to watch.
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 15:14 (Ref:3792698)   #27
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I'm a little out of touch the details of single seater racing, but are F1 drivers allowed to race F2 now days?
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 15:33 (Ref:3792699)   #28
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I'm a little out of touch the details of single seater racing, but are F1 drivers allowed to race F2 now days?
Pantano is one who I know was in GP2 (now referred to as F2) and also F3000 prior to GP2, before making it to F1 for Jordan from GP2 in about 2004. He was replaced by Glock before the year was out and returned to GP2 in 2005, finally becoming GP2 Champion in 2008. A return to F1 was not forthcoming.

Your question maybe can a driver run in F1 and F2 concurrently as in the days gone. As the F2 races are generally support to F1, the rulings of F1 drivers not being allowed to compete in another category within 24 hours would preclude them. My belief anyway.
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Old 15 Jan 2018, 18:22 (Ref:3792966)   #29
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F1 Drivers Moonlighting

Unless they’ve changed the rule, drivers who are competing in F1 on a given weekend aren’t allowed to compete in another category that weekend
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 00:55 (Ref:3793235)   #30
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Unless they’ve changed the rule, drivers who are competing in F1 on a given weekend aren’t allowed to compete in another category that weekend
Didn't that rule vanish when pro-cars were introduced?
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