Competition Car Insurance

[Nick JM]

I have just had my renewal through from Competition Car Insurance i.e. insuring competition cars on the road and in storage (Towergate from Aviva) and, after 4 years of having insurance with them I have actually got round to reading the endorsements on the policy!

I am astounded at what I have read and, on subsequent discussions with my insurers, at what has been confirmed to me.

Apparently your pride and joy is not insured for theft or damage:

1. once it enters the boundary of the circuit
2. once outside the circuit, if it is left unattended unless all the doors are locked, windows shut and it has been fitted with a factory approved alarm (it's a competition car for pity's sake!!).

Given that the most likely circumstances the car has of being nicked is either when it is on a trailer or someone jumping in and driving it out of the paddock (no one would bat an eyelid), it would appear to be the case that all of us are paying insurance where there is little or no risk to the insurance company!

Apparently the only time the car is covered if is it is stolen or damaged while being kept in a locked garage or premises and if for a period of any more than 24 hours you need to notify the insurers as to its change of location (if different from its usual one).

Please, can someone tell me either that I am mistaken and need to re-read the policy, or put me out of my frustration and let me have the details of an insurer who will actually understand what the risks are and that they are prepared to insure against them?

Intensely frustrated of Buckinghamshire!!

[davyboy]

I had similar endorsements on a racing kart policy I took out a few years ago. There were so many ridiculous caveats that the policy just wasn't worth the paper it was written on, so I cancelled it. I wouldn't be surprised if they're common features of competition policies.

[Cliff Ryan]

Nick, try calling Bertie Gilbart Smith as he sorted out a policy for me, which excludes road & on track use, but does cover paddock, transit & storage.

PM me if you need his details.

[zefarelly]

Having taken some insurance on the TT for the Revival I will most definitely be calling Gilbart Smith again.

I'd not insured the Cortina for a good few years due to the same reasons Nick, and the policy I had been using was only up to £25k anyway. I also have a selection of other 'projects' and occaisional 'toys' all in secure storage which all require some consideration.

[skentellytubby]

Gosh Nick, you were just as angry on Saturday in the George and Dragon!

[Tim Falce]

does anyone here use Adrian Flux, I've heard some negative stories about them, wondered if there is any truth.

[morninggents]

I used Adrian Flux for my Transit tow vehicle as they advertise as motor racing insurers. Van has side windows and extra seat installed (with seat belts, and all installed in a way to please a scrutineer). Had to go through a few hoops but far better than previous insurers and others I tried before Flux.

Previous insurer (Churchill) wanted a 50% increase just because side windows had been fitted since previous year! They got a two word response ending in 'off'.

[GORDON STREETER]

Any insurance policy works for the company whatever you insure and I doubt if we would insure anything (other than road insurance) if we really read through the reams of print with a magnifying glass.
A good friend of mine is an accessor and the things he tells me after a few beers about the loopholes that they can get through beggar belief !

[Mike Bell]

All my old road and race cars are insured on one Hagerty policy, and cover relates to the use of each car- pure race, race incl road use, pure road. Nothing insured for race risks though.

Not got the policy docs with me at moment but will check the small print when home! I will be extremely disappointed if the exclusions detailed by Nick are present....

[Nick JM]

Looks like we should all check our insurance! I will call a couple of other insurers and let you all know the findings. The trouble is I do not think there are many who actually insure competition cars (for theft rather than on track insurance).

I have pm'd Cliff for his insurer's details and will also be looking at Haggerty an Adrian Flux.

If still no joy there could be a whole new micro market opening up for some enterprising soul!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Nick JM

If still no joy there could be a whole new micro market opening up for some enterprising soul!

Possibly, but there must be a good reason why they're making these exclusions. At the end of the day, it renders the policy more or less useless for us though.

[Colin McKay]

Like Mike, I use Hagerty's classic cover which includes agreed values so there can be no dispute on that score at least. This gives me limited mileage cover for the road Mk2 and storage/transit risks for the E but they wouldn't cover the S type as it's a purpose built race car and not road registered. Notwithstanding all this, I think I'll also have another read through the small print!

[Nick JM]

Originally Posted by skentellytubby

Gosh Nick, you were just as angry on Saturday in the George and Dragon!

Yes but that was because of a different reason...it was your round and you were being slow

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Like Mike, I use Hagerty's classic cover which includes agreed values so there can be no dispute on that score at least. This gives me limited mileage cover for the road Mk2 and storage/transit risks for the E but they wouldn't cover the S type as it's a purpose built race car and not road registered. Notwithstanding all this, I think I'll also have another read through the small print!

The problem seems to be with race/track only vehicles. If your car is road registered I believe it falls under a legal [regulated ?] framework. No such framework exists for non road vehicles.

[MGDavid]

We shouldn't overlook fellow racer Andy Hancock's brokerage as they are a specialist in the field. Worth a phone call surely.
http://www.grove-dean-motorsport.com/

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The problem seems to be with race/track only vehicles. If your car is road registered I believe it falls under a legal [regulated ?] framework. No such framework exists for non road vehicles.

Agreed, but this is why there are specialist motorsport insurers/brokers. Seems they don't want to cover much!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Agreed, but this is why there are specialist motorsport insurers/brokers. Seems they don't want to cover much!

The kart one was so bad, I'd go so far as to say it was almost a scam. It seems some of the car ones aren't that far off it.

[zefarelly]

so the obvious solution is to keep your race car A; a real one with a proper log book, B; road legal, and insure it properly as a road car.

race specific cover will always be different.

[Tim Falce]

I seem to remember when I took out insurance on my race car with Competition Car insurance (when it was originally CCI long before it was taken over) the sales person did point out to me that the car was insured until it got to the circuit, driven on the road or trailered. It also had to be parked in my garage at night at home but when I left in the street outside a hotel in France for the night that was OK and it was fully insured.

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by Nick JM

Yes but that was because of a different reason...it was your round and you were being slow

I think you'll find I merely fell over on the way to the bar, which slowed my progress.

As Zef says, a logbook & MOT may be the easiest way?

I'm with the lovely folks at Diamond and its insured with agreed valuation on the road including on a trailer etc.

Even so, I do worry leaving it in the paddock over night. A cut-off isn't quite an imobiliser is it?

[Nick JM]

Update soon chaps. I am in touch with several insurers and will let you know the results soon.

What I can say is that once you start asking questions it is surprising how little the sales person actually knows ( or perhaps not so surprising) but even when superior help is requested the answer is veiled with party line phrases. The long and short is that I think it will take several days to really get the answers to the questions I am asking ; and even then I am bit sure they will be the answers we want to hear.

Anyway, as and when I can I will publish my findings here!! Sorry if this sounds pompous but I am genuinely shocked at how much little cover is offered - almost to the point of "why bother insuring in the first place"!

[bauble]

NickJM,
What may be worth considering is trying to collect a few statistics on the risk you wish to insure against. For example; how many cars have been stolen/damaged in the paddock in recent years?

What experience is there of similar problems outside of the circuit such as when being trailered, or stored?

If sufficient evidence of the risk could be presented to a specialist insurer it might be possible to arrange a suitable policy particularly if the 'market' was substantial. No doubt if a clear and unambiguous set of conditions were laid out there could be a number of people (on this site) who would be interested?

Some one here must have connections in The City and a Lloyds brokerage!!


bauble.

[zefarelly]

A guy who drinks in my local is a city underwriter, getting a quote from his colleagues was hard work.

I think we're generally better off stashing a few grand under the bed every year to cover any future losses . . . and a big stick and hard dog for at home.

camping in the paddock isn't so bad either, what we've saved in insurance porobably paid for the motorhome!

[Paul D]

I'm firmly in the 'don't bother' camp. I'm convinced that most insurance policies are unbelievably bad value for money if you actually read the small print. I reckon most claims can be wriggled out of by a determined assessor. Unfortunately, the only way you'll know for sure if you're insured with such a company is when you try to claim - and by then, it's too late if you discover they're the sort to try and wriggle out of it!

I just take the view that if you're careful and don't leave your stuff unnecessarily exposed to risk, then the chances of needing any insurance are minimised. And I hate paying money for something I hope I'll never need! OK, you could argue that we all hope we'll never need our extinguishers, roll cages or harnesses, and, of course, we all do I'm sure - but over the years, I've benefitted from having all of those items at one time or another, but I have never been in a position where I would have benefitted from having my cars covered against damage/theft either from the paddock, in transit, or in my garage.

So, as Zef said - stick the money you save by not having insurance under the bed and chances are, if anything ever does happen, you'll have enough to cover it anyway - but with the bonus that, if nothing ever does happen, you're quids in! The one obvious exception to that would be in the event of a total loss of a valuable racecar, so I guess you've just got to ask yourself what you think the chances of that are. Personally, I reckon it's extremely slim so long as you're not reckless. I'd love to know what the actual statistics show, as I'd wager it hardly ever happens - but, of course, the insurance companies wouldn't tell us that would they?