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Old 17 Mar 2017, 21:20 (Ref:3719475)   #256
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
One word. Stubbornness.

People talk about Japanese pride. I have in the past worked with Japanese engineers on joint venture projects. They are great engineers, very talented, but they are also very stubborn. They want it done all their way. Even when faced with the obvious, they refuse to admit to their erroneous methods. People for some reason mistake their stubbornness for pride. Pride and stubbornness are two very different things. And in my experiences, the Japanese are very stubborn.
Brutal!.....in the past 20 years i have worked in the automotive and motorsports R&D industry with all manner of nationalities.....many individuals could be labelled as stubborn, a scottish guy and Portuguese guy in particular drove me up the wall, but i would not therefore label all scots and Portuguese as stubborn, the individuals concerned were just "girls front bottoms"......i have said it before and ill say it again, in the asia region ageism is rife, once an engineers older boss says it is to be done a certain way, the engineer dare not question his elders instruction, its as simple as that.
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Old 17 Mar 2017, 21:49 (Ref:3719478)   #257
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As Private Fraser would say"They are doomed,if they continue in this manner,Captain Mainwaring!"
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Old 17 Mar 2017, 22:29 (Ref:3719487)   #258
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Brutal!.....in the past 20 years i have worked in the automotive and motorsports R&D industry with all manner of nationalities.....many individuals could be labelled as stubborn, a scottish guy and Portuguese guy in particular drove me up the wall, but i would not therefore label all scots and Portuguese as stubborn, the individuals concerned were just "girls front bottoms"......i have said it before and ill say it again, in the asia region ageism is rife, once an engineers older boss says it is to be done a certain way, the engineer dare not question his elders instruction, its as simple as that.
Ageism:noun
1. discrimination against persons of a certain age group.

2. a tendency to regard older persons as debilitated, unworthy of attention, or unsuitable for employment.



I think subservient or obeisant is what you are looking for Knighty.

Anyway, I guess it's time for Honda to fire Captain Mainwaring's butt and move on!
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Old 18 Mar 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3719803)   #259
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Ageism:noun
1. discrimination against persons of a certain age group.

2. a tendency to regard older persons as debilitated, unworthy of attention, or unsuitable for employment.



I think subservient or obeisant is what you are looking for Knighty.

Anyway, I guess it's time for Honda to fire Captain Mainwaring's butt and move on!
You said it!.....honestly i think they have many issues, it seems my contact in Japan was right about his assessment of the 2017 years Honda F1 performance.....the program is full of inexperienced engineers who rely almost soley on simulation data.....a recipe for disaster and thats whats happened.
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 23:13 (Ref:3720083)   #260
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A few whispers from the Melbourne pitlane suggests that McLaren has a get out clause (effective immediately) for their engine deal with Honda Racing, as it was a deal made with previous McLaren F1 management, which is no longer in effect.

We know Ron Dennis is no longer with McLaren F1, but does that now make the McLaren/Honda agreement null and void?? Was a clause put in by RD that if he was to be ousted the Honda deal goes with him? I guess it's all in the fine print of the agreement. Something for the lawyers.

I'm not sure that McLaren could (or would) dump Honda at a this late a stage. It would be a massive blow for Honda if McLaren were to part with them at the early stages of 2017. And a blow for McLaren financially.

If the divorce was to go ahead, it would take 7-9 weeks to re-engineer the MCL32 to drop in the new engine, depending who McLaren deal with. Could we see McLaren powered by a different engine post the summer break? Quite possible from what the rumours are suggesting.
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 23:15 (Ref:3720084)   #261
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A few whispers from the Melbourne pitlane suggests that McLaren has a get out clause (effective immediately) for their engine deal with Honda Racing, as it was a deal made with previous McLaren F1 management, which is no longer in effect.

We know Ron Dennis is no longer with McLaren F1, but does that now make the McLaren/Honda agreement null and void?? Was a clause put in by RD that if he was to be ousted the Honda deal goes with him? I guess it's all in the fine print of the agreement. Something for the lawyers.

I'm not sure that McLaren could (or would) dump Honda at a this late a stage. It would be a massive blow for Honda if McLaren were to part with them at the early stages of 2017. And a blow for McLaren financially.

If the divorce was to go ahead, it would take 7-9 weeks to re-engineer the MCL32 to drop in the new engine, depending who McLaren deal with. Could we see McLaren powered by a different engine post the summer break? Quite possible from what the rumours are suggesting.
McLaren to Renault?
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 23:22 (Ref:3720086)   #262
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McLaren to Renault?
I'll ask my sauce. Get back to in a few.

Ok... Tom says no, and Barb says yes.

Last edited by F1Guy; 19 Mar 2017 at 23:35.
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 00:07 (Ref:3720090)   #263
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I'll ask my sauce. Get back to in a few.

Ok... Tom says no, and Barb says yes.
It is one way to go to a partner you haven't annoyed in recent times...

Red Bull proved a customer engine can win..

Unless Mr Ojjeh is planning on another TAG-Porsche project..
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Old 21 Mar 2017, 09:39 (Ref:3720383)   #264
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I'll ask my sauce. Get back to in a few.

Ok... Tom says no, and Barb says yes.
Brown or red sauce?
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Old 21 Mar 2017, 10:09 (Ref:3720388)   #265
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A few whispers from the Melbourne pitlane suggests that McLaren has a get out clause (effective immediately) for their engine deal with Honda Racing, as it was a deal made with previous McLaren F1 management, which is no longer in effect.

We know Ron Dennis is no longer with McLaren F1, but does that now make the McLaren/Honda agreement null and void?? Was a clause put in by RD that if he was to be ousted the Honda deal goes with him? I guess it's all in the fine print of the agreement. Something for the lawyers.

I'm not sure that McLaren could (or would) dump Honda at a this late a stage. It would be a massive blow for Honda if McLaren were to part with them at the early stages of 2017. And a blow for McLaren financially.

If the divorce was to go ahead, it would take 7-9 weeks to re-engineer the MCL32 to drop in the new engine, depending who McLaren deal with. Could we see McLaren powered by a different engine post the summer break? Quite possible from what the rumours are suggesting.
I'm prepared the bet that some engine CAD data has already been passed from Mercedes or Renault over to Mclaren, so they can start to scope out, design and procure whats required and reduce the timing impact, I can imagine this will be done in a veil of secrecy probably off-site away from prying eyes.......Merc were probably prepared to supply Manor in 2017, so I dare say there is a substantial stock of engine parts at Mercedes just waiting to be built into running engines and used by a team.
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Old 22 Mar 2017, 21:01 (Ref:3720772)   #266
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Mr Boullier's take on a key Honda issue: Deadlines? We don't got no stinking deadlines

I'm assuming that he is being diplomatic with his media utterings but sounds to me like there are really serious problems in the background.

It is definitely the thing that outsiders find hardest to deal with in racing teams - the fact that deadlines are absolute (the race starts when it starts, if you're not white ready, bad luck). As a result, teams tend to get things done fast - go hard at it and put in long hours which means suppliers or in this case engine partners need to have the same approach for the whole thing to work.
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Old 22 Mar 2017, 21:23 (Ref:3720779)   #267
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Brown or red sauce?
I think this is really at the heart of the matter.
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 04:29 (Ref:3720816)   #268
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Brown or red sauce?
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 09:16 (Ref:3720862)   #269
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Interesting to hear Autosport's season preview podcast, in which they mention in fighting at McLaren. They need to sort their loaves out and work together to get the best out of the team, car and engine if that is the case, because it's only disrupting them at the moment
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 16:03 (Ref:3720936)   #270
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We all understood the joke, it just wasn't funny.
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