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View Poll Results: Where will the WEC US round 2017 be held?
Circuit of the Americas (early September? with PCW?) 17 36.96%
Indy - plenty of history and, more importantly, plenty of run off 6 13.04%
Montreal - close enough to the US border and would serve US N-E audience very well 8 17.39%
Road America - the only right choice but lots of 'upgrading' to do to please the FIA blue blazers 7 15.22%
no US (or Canadian) round at all - the WEC doesn't need a race there anyway... 6 13.04%
somewhere else in North or South America (Brazil???) 2 4.35%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12 Mar 2017, 03:35 (Ref:3718114)   #286
TF110
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Starfish Primer View Post
They can make things easier by removing the second ERS and making 2-4 MJ more competitive.
If you have a single kers, why can't you have another? It's not rocket science if you're able to do one on the front axle to do one on the rear. Or just leave it be and equalize them in 'mj classes' by dropping the incentive like I said. The incentive was there to entice manufacturers to use higher level hybrids and they were onboard with it. That talk about how that drove budgets up is silly imo. Regenerative braking has been around since the 90's.
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3718243)   #287
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ERS systems haven't driven up the cost in and of themselves. The incentive on their development, the high bar set and the initially relatively short time to try and get there is what drove up cost. Not to mention that the ACO restricted other areas of development that similar gains in performance could've been made for less expense and still be road relevant.
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 20:49 (Ref:3718257)   #288
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
ERS systems haven't driven up the cost in and of themselves. The incentive on their development, the high bar set and the initially relatively short time to try and get there is what drove up cost. Not to mention that the ACO restricted other areas of development that similar gains in performance could've been made for less expense and still be road relevant.
I agree with you that the explosion of cost was the high bar set and the initially relatively short time to development the ERS systems.
What areas do you think the ACO should have liberated to gains similar performance at a lower cost?
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 20:59 (Ref:3718258)   #289
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
ERS systems haven't driven up the cost in and of themselves. The incentive on their development, the high bar set and the initially relatively short time to try and get there is what drove up cost. Not to mention that the ACO restricted other areas of development that similar gains in performance could've been made for less expense and still be road relevant.
That's kinda funny to me. Audi spent the most money yet had the least amount of hybrid So what was all the money spent on since they only had 1 ers? Was it the diesel powertrain? Aerodynamics? All the talk from Peugeot or whoever is making the comments that one ers will drop the costs needs to take another look.
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Old 12 Mar 2017, 21:37 (Ref:3718266)   #290
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That's funny, considering that you and Toyota plead poverty, yet Toyota's budget is probably double now what it was in 2013, and they want hybrid system development to continue unabated. Which would match what Porsche's budget was over what it would've been pre-2013 as well as equal the rate that Audi increased their budget to go with the rules change as far as percentage increase.

You still seem to be ignoring that the rules incentivized huge hybrid systems (IMO, too much) and basically painted everyone into the 8MJ/gasoline engine or it's equivalents. And originally, they had three years to get there, not until 2020 like now, though that damage has been done.
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Old 13 Mar 2017, 01:09 (Ref:3718288)   #291
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hey uh, you're guessing on the budget part and you're getting personal with your comments. I think you should read the comment for what it is instead of as an attack on Audi.

It's possible to do 8mj with two kers', so you don't have to do the f1 level ers-h. Every major manufacturer has a hybrid car that uses kers, even the Peugeot CitroŽn group. I don't care about the incentive to do higher electric energy. I even said they should drop it. But the notion that it's all hybrids' fault that the budgets are high is misleading. That's why I used the Audi example.

They were undoubtedly the biggest spending team but they had the least amount of hybrid power. Peugeot or the ACO, whoever, is leaning towards one energy recovery system (or type of system). Well that was what Audi was going with but that didn't keep their budget low. So if going hybrid is so expensive why is it that the cheaper teams had two ers's to Audi's one? So no, it's not just the hybrid.
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Old 13 Mar 2017, 02:01 (Ref:3718289)   #292
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carbsmith should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridcarbsmith should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridcarbsmith should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Toyota's budget is double what it was in 2012 when they ran one car. That's only around 33% more than Peugeot's budget in 2011. It's not like the old rules were exactly dragging in manufacturers either.
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Old 13 Mar 2017, 12:02 (Ref:3718361)   #293
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You guys seem to be forgetting TF110's comments that TMG's budget for the WEC is 1/4 of what it was in F1. If we consider that they spent damn near $400 million a year at times, their current budget is nearly $100 million. That's about $15 million more than Audi in 2013, and easily twice what Toyota had spent prior to 2014.

Also when you consider that Porsche totally redesigned their car only one season into the WEC and played all kinds of aero trickery from the beginning, their budget had to be at least as big as what Audi were working with. Not to mention that both are owned by VAG, one of the biggest spenders in motorsport, period.
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Old 13 Mar 2017, 18:38 (Ref:3718421)   #294
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Not a quarter of the budget at it's highest. Pretty sure they were referring to the last season iirc, which was 2009. Toyota dropped the budget to around $300 million around the 2007 or 2008 season when Pascal Vasselon took over (he made the 1/4 comments). It's established by most of the guys in the know that Toyota doesn't spend 9 figures.
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Old 13 Mar 2017, 19:55 (Ref:3718449)   #295
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Even if Toyota aren't spending 100 million dollars, I'm betting that they're spending more than they'd want to. And I'm betting that it's still a significant portion of both Audi and Porsche budgets has been.

I'm not in favor of having teams risk having to spend over $100 million a season just to have a shot to win, but rapid development brings that about. That was the Pandora's box that the incentive for big hybrid systems, having three years to get there, and a prospective even higher jump after that brought about.

Not to mention that IMO, 2006-2013 I feel that LMP1 cars achieved a state of mechanical and technological perfection that any big jump in performance would be hugely expensive. It's kinda like infantry rifles today, being based on 60-70 year old designs just upgraded with modern sights and built quality. Any big jump from that will undoubtedly be expensive for the armed forces of the world. Same with the modern LMP1 prototype racer.
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 15:13 (Ref:3720222)   #296
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New liveries for the AF Corse Ferraris


Those blue accents look kinda out of place to me. Well, at least there won't be people confusing them for Ford GTs
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 15:35 (Ref:3720228)   #297
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New liveries for the AF Corse Ferraris


Those blue accents look kinda out of place to me. Well, at least there won't be people confusing them for Ford GTs
I like this livery, I do not like the last year livery, there was more blue the last year.
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 18:56 (Ref:3720276)   #298
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Aye, definitely an improvement on last year's!
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Old 24 Mar 2017, 12:21 (Ref:3721162)   #299
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Mike E is going for a new lap record!Mike E is going for a new lap record!Mike E is going for a new lap record!Mike E is going for a new lap record!Mike E is going for a new lap record!Mike E is going for a new lap record!
Yikes! Won't mistake these for anything else.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/c...ries-revealed/
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Old 24 Mar 2017, 12:22 (Ref:3721163)   #300
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That Ferrari livery is a mess. I like the new red, but the rest of it just looks scrappy.
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