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Old 31 Aug 2008, 22:53 (Ref:2279054)   #1
Aslak Vind
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S2000 replaced by tubechassis V8īs ?

Hey guys,

in DK we have one of Europes best S2000 championships, the Danish Touringcar Championship. But it seems that the greediness of the organizers and promoters has reached a new high.

They plan to replace the S2000 cars, which can be bought of the shelve from numerous manufacturers across Europe, with an one make Pratt + Miller tubular chassis V8 car, with silhouette bodies.

I am not aware of one single series in Europe which has any kind of success with this concept, outside the DTM series. The V8 Star series suffered a grim death, and I am not aware of any S2000 brand, who thinks replacing the S2000 cars with a noname chassis is viable.

Thoughts?
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Old 31 Aug 2008, 23:33 (Ref:2279068)   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslak Vind
I am not aware of one single series in Europe which has any kind of success with this concept, outside the DTM series. The V8 Star series suffered a grim death, and I am not aware of any S2000 brand, who thinks replacing the S2000 cars with a noname chassis is viable.

Thoughts?
Well here in the UK series such as the ISC, Touring1, and SCV8 were a great success. Some of them even built a prototype and held a race.
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Old 31 Aug 2008, 23:46 (Ref:2279072)   #3
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My thought is... go to Stockholm, organize a forum with STCC BoD and team bosses, series backers... and try to get the conclusion. The conclusion would be, let's create the best European S2000 league, together, let us beat WTCC with our resources, with our teams and drivers, because some of our teams are well backed, very professional with great drivers.... and the audience and TV is there to back us up.
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Old 31 Aug 2008, 23:50 (Ref:2279074)   #4
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Originally Posted by Aslak Vind
Hey guys,

in DK we have one of Europes best S2000 championships, the Danish Touringcar Championship. But it seems that the greediness of the organizers and promoters has reached a new high.

Thoughts?
What where they high on? Crack by the sounds of it - this idea will never work as there are already enough (or possibly too many) touring car series, and outside of Germany there is little or no appetite for V8 cars, be it with fans or more crucially manufacturers.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 00:04 (Ref:2279078)   #5
Aslak Vind
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Promotor Peter Elgaard and Jan Magnussen, who is representing the teams as he partly owns Alternative Engineering (Former Peugeot Sport), visited Sunday with P+M to see their offering concerning tubularchassis cars. Obviously the target is costcutting, but I cant see the benefit or payoff..

Alex_K and duke_toaster: We agree, in DK although small country we have an extremely strong S2000 championship. And if we joined forces with STCC, I am sure that we with the manufacturer support could prove them wrong. We have cars with factory support from BMW, SEAT, Honda, Chevrolet and Volvo.

Neither of them could possibly have any interest in scrapping their S2000 cars and marketing efforts of their streetcars, in favour of some OEM truck..

In my book, it is murder..!

Last edited by Aslak Vind; 1 Sep 2008 at 00:06.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 01:00 (Ref:2279089)   #6
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Speed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpeed-King should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hmm, P&M tubeframe-chassis and V8. Looks like P&M are recycling their GXP.R-concept from Rolex GT. Although those are indeed a bit pricier than S2000 cars with ~300k USD when new. Maybe a simplified version of those?

Belgium has a modestly successfull silouette-class as well in the BTCS. I think they get around 7-8 cars in their headlining S1-class. Mostly cars from former French Supertourisme and Renault Megane Trophy there.
With Mags being a Corvette-factory driver, it's no surprise that they choose P&M.

Last edited by Speed-King; 1 Sep 2008 at 01:03.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 02:12 (Ref:2279104)   #7
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This idea has also been floated in Australia for the V8 Supercars to cut costs.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 02:15 (Ref:2279105)   #8
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I used to enjoy Supertouring a bit and I've tried to get into S2000 and I just can't get interested. I've watched the STCC, WTCC and BTCC and I really do try to follow it and get interested but the cars are just too slow and unspectacular. I wouldn't make a trip to Europe to see a S2000 race but I would fly to Aus or NZ for V8SC and NZV8's.

Perhaps Magnusson and friends can see the writing on the wall. I don't think they're being "greedy" just that as racing drivers you want a challenge and crowds prefer real race cars.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 08:29 (Ref:2279198)   #9
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I'm wondering how many DTC-cars are private, and how many are backed by a manufacturer/importer. If most are, i can't see this working. When Aslak is right when he says that no manufacturer is interested in a tube-framed racecar with it's name on it. If however the field is mainly made up of privateers, who can still race for the Danisch title, at a lower cost with faster cars, then the chances are higher. However, they still forego the opportunity to race in other series that might be interesting for them (STCC/WTCC/Procar) or sell the cars to drivers in other championships.

Having said that, I do like S2000-cars, and I like the idea of standard tubecars less, so I am against.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 08:57 (Ref:2279218)   #10
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Aslak Vind should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thank you for your thoughts, keep them coming.

Well the top of the DTC is manufacturer supported, while the rest is competing in the DTC Cup. That mainly is divided, whether or not the driver is a pro or privateer.

So in theory I guess that the privateers could see it as a possibility. But as werner suggests, they will only be able to compete in Danish series. Much like the Danish Endurance Series, where the Danish sportscar Aquila SR-1 competes. it is made by modular chassis, so it is unable to compete anywhere else - and it has been a less than brilliant succes.

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Old 1 Sep 2008, 09:19 (Ref:2279231)   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslak Vind
Thoughts?
If they're planning that they are utterly stupid and they are murdering the sport. Touringcar racing is all about cars based on streetcars, not tubeframed V8's. Also the choice for V8's is a weird and dumb one: in a time where everybody is talking about the environment it would be much wiser to use a V6, throw in some ethanol and present it as a green concept to attract more sponsors and media attention.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 12:50 (Ref:2279361)   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainstar
I used to enjoy Supertouring a bit and I've tried to get into S2000 and I just can't get interested. I've watched the STCC, WTCC and BTCC and I really do try to follow it and get interested but the cars are just too slow and unspectacular.

Exactly what I think!
Although I donīt think that V8 powered tubeframe cars are the answer, I would prefer 1.8 - 2.0 liter turbos with, and this is the most important part, more power to grip than S2000. Maybe something like 350 hk, low downforce and some spec parts in the chassis to keep costs down.

I donīt think it would cost more than todays S2000, it would still be interesting for manufacturers and it would be more spectacular for the fans.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 13:16 (Ref:2279373)   #13
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If Denmark really moves away from S2000, the only series left with that ruleset will be Great Britain, Sweden and the World Championship. To an lesser extend ADAC-Procar, but they race to the S2000-rules from 2005, so their importance for the S2000-world is really neglegible.
I guess that's bad news for the whole 2litre-touring community as it further reduces the possibilities to sell and race these cars.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 13:22 (Ref:2279379)   #14
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werner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridwerner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Finland, the Baltic States, Russia, Portugal and Italy have championships with S2000-cars, although in the last 2 the number of entrants in the S2000-class is single-digit IIRC.
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Old 1 Sep 2008, 13:26 (Ref:2279382)   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werner
Finland, the Baltic States, Russia, Portugal and Italy have championships with S2000-cars, although in the last 2 the number of entrants in the S2000-class is single-digit IIRC.
Just looked up these:
Italy:Usual ITCC-field: 2 S2000 cars and 3 SP-cars.
Portugal: 5 S2000 cars and 5 Super-Copas and 6 cars in division 3 (mostly Clios)

I don't know much about the Finnish, Baltic or Russian championships. What kind of fields do they get?
Also didn't the Netherlands opt for FIA-GT4 instead of Super2000 recently?

Last edited by Speed-King; 1 Sep 2008 at 13:30.
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