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Old 19 Dec 2016, 22:52 (Ref:3697258)   #16
Chigley
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Are they going to throw it at you Chigs?
Subtle, as long as its only points and not financial penalties.
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 06:35 (Ref:3697294)   #17
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They are all daft, the show you want to put on something else at the same time as is the ridiculous overpriced garbage at the NEC. Not a rival show, that is cretinous to the point of asking if these people are actually real.

I do wonder at people I really do.
You've lost me a bit with the first para.

You would assume market research has been done and produced positive evidence that the new show is 'viable'. Or maybe as it it is 'piggy backing' on the Classic Show the space is already paid for and the Historic bit will just be the same visitors.......

Yes, RR does have USPs, the live stage being one. But so does ExCel, the book throwing will be worth entry fee alone.
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 08:14 (Ref:3697307)   #18
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
With your own eyes you have seen the gradual decline of Race Retro. I certainly have. Huge early on, a shoe in every year. Now a fading event, same stands, same people turning up, same cars in the rally stage etc etc.

Market research would give you that fact. Plus location and the fact there was an interest and that has declined. Plus obviously London is surrounded by wealth, the normal market for the majority of classic car owners and enthusiasts.

But, maybe the reason RR has gone downhill is because it is a tired format, entry prices go up a little most years, content goes down. They haven't moved it on. Can you move it on?

Is that the trend for classic motorsport? Are there so many companies wanting to push wares that you can split a cottage industry in two on the same weekend?

To me it smacks of "we are better than you" more than any level of market research. And is honestly one of the dumbest and most selfish things I have ever seen.

It's like holding the Silverstone Classic the same weekend as Goodwood. Cretinous.
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 10:36 (Ref:3697323)   #19
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And is honestly one of the dumbest and most selfish things I have ever seen.

It's like holding the Silverstone Classic the same weekend as Goodwood. Cretinous.
Don't hold back- say what you really mean!
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 14:01 (Ref:3697353)   #20
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You know me.

Honestly, why you would do such a thing is beyond me.

All sorts of sports try and put events and big finals on in weekends that do not clash.

So why is an off season show any different.

It strikes me that the Excel show is probably trying to shut down Race Retro quite honestly, takeover styleee!
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 14:07 (Ref:3697356)   #21
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I think your last comment will be on quite a few people's minds.....
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 18:59 (Ref:3697431)   #22
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Yes I agree with Chunder. As you know I didn't exhibit last year and the only difference it made to me is that I made more profit in February than the previous year!

I meet lots of old friends, most of them retired from motor sport. The average age of the visitor is pretty high and very few are actual competitors. The auto jumble is getting smaller each year along with the regular stands. Even when we do get illustrious members of the historic racing community visiting, they normally stay in the shiny parts hall and not progress to the Outer Darkness. So I'm no longer a fan!

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Old 20 Dec 2016, 21:52 (Ref:3697466)   #23
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Lancsbreaker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridLancsbreaker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridLancsbreaker should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Been to Race Retro most years, always on the Friday - I know we miss the rally-stage but having seen all the cars in proper all-out competition in the day, seeing them play at 1/4 speed doesn't really appeal.....

To me the show, whilst not changing hugely, has always been a pre-season opportunity to meet up with mates and have a chat and plan the season.....expect I'll be there again this coming year. Hiking down to that there Lunnon has less-than zero appeal to me.
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Old 20 Dec 2016, 22:23 (Ref:3697473)   #24
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I meet lots of old friends, most of them retired from motor sport. The average age of the visitor is pretty high and very few are actual competitors. The auto jumble is getting smaller each year along with the regular stands. Even when we do get illustrious members of the historic racing community visiting, they normally stay in the shiny parts hall and not progress to the Outer Darkness. So I'm no longer a fan!

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until last year I had attended as an exhibitor, of sorts, for several years as part of the CSCC team, and whilst I agree that the average age at RR is on the high side, I would say there is a very high proportion of competitors.

I would also suggest that the auto jumble is largely irrelevant to most competitors and would be better placed at a classic car show, rather than a motorsport show.
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Old 21 Dec 2016, 08:15 (Ref:3697549)   #25
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I beg to differ! Maybe it's because you are in the shiny parts hall, by the time they get to the Outer Darkness the competitors have dropped off and all that is left is people with memories of how quick they were.

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Old 21 Dec 2016, 08:45 (Ref:3697560)   #26
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Regardless of he merits of either show I do not believe we should hold the Annual meet anywhere further North than the Ace, as it could attract some of the - shall we say - less than savoury attendees.
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Old 21 Dec 2016, 09:06 (Ref:3697564)   #27
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I would also suggest that the auto jumble is largely irrelevant to most competitors and would be better placed at a classic car show, rather than a motorsport show.
I totally disagree with you on this point. As a competitor running three historic type cars I always make straight to the autojumble stands first, in the hope of finding spare parts for stock. All the other stands are there for the weekend and won,t change in their layout, but that elusive part could be gone in the first 5 minutes !!!

As I,ve said previously though, RR has deteriorated noticeably and I think it borders on crass stupidity having two major shows on at the same time.
Having said this, RR is being given one last chance by me to up its game this time,and if not, I shall call time on it.
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Old 21 Dec 2016, 09:11 (Ref:3697565)   #28
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
After many years on a 'stand' I've given up on R.R. and certainly wont be going down sarf.
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Old 21 Dec 2016, 10:22 (Ref:3697591)   #29
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Interesting points from a few folk then. Some used to be regulars but like me have realised the show is only worth it because of either the social side or the rally stage bit and bits of the show.

The jumble areas used to be huge and you would often find some great bargains, can only presume either the charges went through the roof a la NEC in the 90's or there was just no interest from the public.

I certainly bought stuff there when it started, and haven't for years.
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Old 21 Dec 2016, 14:08 (Ref:3697630)   #30
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Too many classic events competing with each other is my hobby horse too!

I notice that RR is terming itself as 'Race Retro celebrates the very best of international historic motorsport' which is of course the same title as the show attached to the London CCS...

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water - another new show is starting in London at Olympa 17-19 Feb 2017 - the Olympia Historic Automobile - based around a Coys auction (yes yet another auction) and pitched at the moneyed end of the classic motoring and motorsport faternity. So that is 3 shows in two weeks and of course there is retromobile on 8th to 12th Feb....

RR - I have been several times in recent years and 2017 is Clarion's first time so I suspect they will feel their way and not change much in the short term. It needs investment to try and take it to a different level but as Chunder says, what can you do, is it worth it, does the location and venue pretty much fix the level of the show and attendance. Since LCCS and their new motosport halls add on, this has taken RR's USP of being the kick off event of the year for classic motorsport and motoring to a certain extent.

Will they keep it at Stoneleigh in the long term - who knows - it is probably contracted to be there for a few years - but if the London event impacts on attendance and exhibitors, maybe they will keep the name and bolt it on to the NEC and encourage clubs to put any motorsport content into RR, alongside new content and make it an end of season bash?
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