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Old 27 Oct 2006, 15:56 (Ref:1751230)   #51
Grandslammer
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Found one pic,alas in B&W
http://www.users.myisp.co.uk/~climen...ene/sheene.htm
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Old 27 Oct 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1751389)   #52
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well look at all this info
its all much apprieciated, i have now confirmed that my car is the number 3 car. i cant wait to get the thing back up and running again
All im missing now are some pictures of the circuit car. the car said "hughes of Beaconsfield" on the bonnet

thanks for everything
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Old 28 Oct 2006, 10:48 (Ref:1751834)   #53
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Here's the best I have. Rather grainy I'm afraid - I was stupidly using the photo processers free film in those (poor) days !

Hope it helps.

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Old 28 Oct 2006, 13:08 (Ref:1751929)   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ART Racing
"i had been told that win percy used to drive my car before barry did.

have you restored your car in to its former works colours ???"


Adam, I believe the second car was scrapped and (assuming your car is RHD) I believe your car is therefore the third circuit car. Mind you, all I have to make me think that is an interview I saw with Barry later, he made it sound like the third car was a new one.

No, my car is not in the works colours. Group A is an historic category here, and we have to have the cars in the exact mechanical spec and livery for a particular race meeting. My car has been rebuilt in its 1987 Australian colour scheme, to take advantage of the later homologations which continued until Aug 1986..... Given that it never raced here in those works colours, I am better off keeping it in its 1986 or 87 colour schemes.

John
So it's in the white colour scheme, as seen when Williamson DNQ'd at Bathurst 87?

slightly off-topic, but I hadn't realised that historic racing in Australia was so strict on original liveries and specs- it would be interesting to see the effect of applying the same approach over here in Europe....
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Old 28 Oct 2006, 13:42 (Ref:1751941)   #55
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No, it is actually going back to its Oran Park or Adelaide 1987 colour scheme at the moment - Car looked pretty ordinary at Bathurst, had lost most of its sponsorship by then and Peter had sold the car yard. It looks best at Adelaide but I can not find the photos to substantiate it, just have some far off ones that don't show the detail. Oran Park is the same sans a couple of sponsor stickers on the front wings. There are a couple of photos on www.autopics.com.au that show what the Oran Park scheme looks like.

I am pretty happy with the strictness of the rules, otherwise you may as well allow replicas to race, that is all the cars end up being once you stray too far from their original spec. They aren't concerned so much about whether the spec matches the race, as long as it matches the same year, race to race would be a bit hard. I have about 8 photos of the engine bay of the Supra over the 1984-87 period, and every one is slightly different as various mods were trialed, or for different length races.

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Old 28 Oct 2006, 19:16 (Ref:1752108)   #56
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Hey bring it on this liveries as raced as I will reproduce them, sounds like a nice little earner.
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Old 28 Oct 2006, 23:55 (Ref:1752309)   #57
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Idea

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Originally Posted by ART Racing
It looks best at Adelaide but I can not find the photos to substantiate it, just have some far off ones that don't show the detail.
John
There are a number of adelaidean/vic car nuts on the noticeboard at work John who may just have a good pic...its worth a try IMHO
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Old 29 Oct 2006, 00:22 (Ref:1752314)   #58
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Originally Posted by ART Racing
No, it is actually going back to its Oran Park or Adelaide 1987 colour scheme at the moment - Car looked pretty ordinary at Bathurst, had lost most of its sponsorship by then and Peter had sold the car yard. It looks best at Adelaide but I can not find the photos to substantiate it, just have some far off ones that don't show the detail. Oran Park is the same sans a couple of sponsor stickers on the front wings. There are a couple of photos on www.autopics.com.au that show what the Oran Park scheme looks like.

I am pretty happy with the strictness of the rules, otherwise you may as well allow replicas to race, that is all the cars end up being once you stray too far from their original spec. They aren't concerned so much about whether the spec matches the race, as long as it matches the same year, race to race would be a bit hard. I have about 8 photos of the engine bay of the Supra over the 1984-87 period, and every one is slightly different as various mods were trialed, or for different length races.

John
I also didnt mind that car in the colours of National/Technics when it arrived at Bathurst in 1984.... black nose.. black tail... the rest in white... there are a couple of pics of it in the Great Race book of 1984
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Old 29 Oct 2006, 02:51 (Ref:1752345)   #59
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"Hey bring it on this liveries as raced as I will reproduce them, sounds like a nice little earner."

Al, perhaps you should encourage it - what better way to ensure you maintain your tin top history than by giving them their own historic series and making them run in their original colours? Otherwise they just get heavily modified, or sold for their parts, and all that history is gone. I am glad the Association and CAMS in Australia have gone down this route, you should see the crowd reaction when the old cars get trotted out, still looking exactly as they did in the 70's and 80's.

I agree, I liked the National Panasonic scheme my car used in 84, but that means a change of body panels front and rear, new wheels (smaller arches = narrower wheels and tyres), different injection system (back to the factory one), different suspension, different dash, smaller brakes on the front etc. And the engine internals have to be almost factory stock so minus lots of HP. More interior for more weight. Big list of downside for a nice paint job!

I don't have a choice anyway, partner wants it orange (Toyota Fireball) so orange it will become in a few years, back to 1986. Will get it sorted in its existing scheme first.

John
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Old 29 Oct 2006, 07:19 (Ref:1752414)   #60
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Joking aside I am trying to renovate a piece of American race history, one of the original Penske IROC tubular spaceframe Camaros from the 70's and I have unfortunately found it was run in an inciped shade of light beige like a Ford Camel Beige from the 70's. Now much as I would like to paint it black as the one in the Talladaga Museum or Red/orange as the one renovated by the IROC people and the same colour as raced by Dale Earhardt I am going to have to restore it to its original shade of light beige as each of the 15 cars were a specific colour for identification purposes and I'd have a Havoc Video with my car being driven by Al Unser including in car shots so thats the way it will have to be. Plus all the Z/28 decals, the Firestone stickers, Sunoco 66 stickers, drivers name (who ever I decide as it has been driven by many, Al Unser sounds good though or Buddy Baker as he was the last to drive it in an IROC race) as above all it must be authentic.

I sprayed my early 70's Camaro yellow but was contemplating doing in the Castrol colours as raced by Frank Gardiner but as it only has an iron small block not an Alloy Big block I thought it would not live up to the livery and am probably right! :-)
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Old 29 Oct 2006, 19:55 (Ref:1752954)   #61
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Originally Posted by Groupc
I have one or two, including one of him spinning it at Silverstone. I will look this weekend and reply.

Curious why you are looking for photos ?

Julian
restoration project
thanks for the pictures
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 13:41 (Ref:1753581)   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Weyman
As I said 'entered by a Scottish driver', and the 11 year time scale is spot on. I bet a pound to a piece of dogs muck its the same car that came out with us in the ModProds. Was the drivers name Angus McKie or something and he went on to have a go as a privateer in BTCC generally towards the blunt end but always a trier, him and his brother owned a scrappy yard as I recollect.
Are you thinking of Hamish Irvine?

Him and his brother owned Sports Car Breakers in Edinburgh.

He also used to race in Production saloons (won the first Willhire with Andrew Jeffrey)
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 14:14 (Ref:1753602)   #63
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Yes Hamish thats him, did he enter it?
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 20:37 (Ref:1753836)   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ART Racing
No, it is actually going back to its Oran Park or Adelaide 1987 colour scheme at the moment - Car looked pretty ordinary at Bathurst, had lost most of its sponsorship by then and Peter had sold the car yard. It looks best at Adelaide but I can not find the photos to substantiate it, just have some far off ones that don't show the detail. Oran Park is the same sans a couple of sponsor stickers on the front wings. There are a couple of photos on www.autopics.com.au that show what the Oran Park scheme looks like.
Thanks for that


QUOTE]I am pretty happy with the strictness of the rules, otherwise you may as well allow replicas to race, that is all the cars end up being once you stray too far from their original spec. They aren't concerned so much about whether the spec matches the race, as long as it matches the same year, race to race would be a bit hard. I have about 8 photos of the engine bay of the Supra over the 1984-87 period, and every one is slightly different as various mods were trialed, or for different length races.

John[/QUOTE]

I agree with you about original cars being raced in correct period spec, and I'm all in favour of them appearing in correct historic liveries- I hadn't realised that the the rules required the colours to match the appropriate year's specification though.

I think the idea has a lot going for it- much better than allowing original cars to be hacked about into 'hot-rods' that don't match their original spec in the name of winning...
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 20:59 (Ref:1753847)   #65
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I think people get too excited with this originality bit when it comes to saloon cars, what happens if there is a major shunt in the cars lifetime and it gets reshelled, they are raced after all, so what is original, the shell, the roll cage, the mechanical bits, what?
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Old 30 Oct 2006, 21:23 (Ref:1753868)   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallycrosscraig
Are you thinking of Hamish Irvine?

Him and his brother owned Sports Car Breakers in Edinburgh.

He also used to race in Production saloons (won the first Willhire with Andrew Jeffrey)
Hamish also ran a Dolomite Sprint in Grp1 Tricentrols in late 70s.
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Old 31 Oct 2006, 08:43 (Ref:1754158)   #67
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Hamish also ran a Dolomite Sprint in Grp1 Tricentrols in late 70s.
And into the early 80's before taking over an ex Terry Nightingale Mazda RX7 (originally an Grp 1 TWR car) for a couple of years for the first 2 seasons of Grp A in Britain.

BTW ART i've just had a look at the site you linked with the pics. The Celica Supra looks good. There's also some pretty strange looking beasts in some of those shots like an Iso, a Dolly Sprint taking on Gary Wilmington's XJS. Can't imagine those cars would also have been in the ATCC rounds, must've been some open saloon thrashes at the same circuits?
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Old 31 Oct 2006, 09:48 (Ref:1754236)   #68
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Autopics

Chunterer, that site does all racing in Australia, so will be lots of odd things. Never had an Iso in Group C here, but they did race in Appendix J and still race in what we call Group N which is pre 1973 Touring Cars which do not need to have racing history. As there are Group N events at Bathurst you will see these cars pictured there and at other meetings.

I am pretty sure that there was a Dolly Sprint converted to Group A in Australia, which raced a few times in 1985, hence why it might be pictured with Gary's XJ-S Group A car (which still exists, I saw it last year). There were also 3 combined Group C and A events, Sandown 84, Bathurst 84 and the Touring Car support race for the 1984 Australian GP. I used to own and race the only Mk 2 Escort converted from Group C to Group A, it did 5 events in Group A in 1985 at the hands of Ken Harrison before being 'banned' because everyone wanted 'new' cars in Group A, not old 70's Escorts. There was also an ex Peter Williamson Group C Celica converted to Group A which raced for a couple of years, but by the end of 86 all these small old cars had gone. Lots of 'one offs' raced in Group A here, a Fiat Uno which I think is still in WA, a Mk 3 Escort which I think went to NZ and other interesting oddities.

BTW, for non Oz readers, Group C = main Australian Touring Car Category from 1973-1984, not International Group C.

John
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Old 31 Oct 2006, 10:19 (Ref:1754269)   #69
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Originally Posted by ART Racing
I am pretty sure that there was a Dolly Sprint converted to Group A in Australia, which raced a few times in 1985, hence why it might be pictured with Gary's XJ-S Group A car (which still exists, I saw it last year). There were also 3 combined Group C and A events, Sandown 84, Bathurst 84 and the Touring Car support race for the 1984 Australian GP. I used to own and race the only Mk 2 Escort converted from Group C to Group A, it did 5 events in Group A in 1985 at the hands of Ken Harrison before being 'banned' because everyone wanted 'new' cars in Group A, not old 70's Escorts. There was also an ex Peter Williamson Group C Celica converted to Group A which raced for a couple of years, but by the end of 86 all these small old cars had gone. Lots of 'one offs' raced in Group A here, a Fiat Uno which I think is still in WA, a Mk 3 Escort which I think went to NZ and other interesting oddities.

John
The one-offs are one of the things I've always found interesting in touring car racing, and there were quite a few of them over the Group A period. The Mark 3 Escort you mentioned- if that's the car that appeared at Bathurst 86, then I think it was an ex-BTCC car- the Mk3 in RS1600i and RS Turbo form was fairly common in Group A in the UK and Europe
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Old 31 Oct 2006, 10:31 (Ref:1754284)   #70
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The one-offs are one of the things I've always found interesting in touring car racing, and there were quite a few of them over the Group A period. The Mark 3 Escort you mentioned- if that's the car that appeared at Bathurst 86, then I think it was an ex-BTCC car- the Mk3 in RS1600i and RS Turbo form was fairly common in Group A in the UK and Europe
Yes, the RS1600i was the car to beat in the 1600cc class for the first few years of Grp A, certainly in Britain, and was usually up against various Golf GTi's across Europe, before the Corolla GT16 and FX model came in.

Later there was an extremely rapid PG Tips backed Honda Civic but it only ran for one year before Grp A was replaced by supertouring in Britain at the end of 1989.

Other interesting and less prolific British series Grp A cars, in terms of numbers at least, that were around at the same time as the Supra were the Opel Monza in the big class, Graham Goode's Datsun/Nissan Bluebird Turbo and John Morris' VW Scirroco, neither of which reached their full potential I suspect due to the lack of readily available funding and homologated bits.

John Morris later leased or bought one of the Celica Supra's to run in 1986 but IIRC it only entered a couple of rounds and didn't qualify for the Silverstone TT that year.

Also in the middle class class were the amazing Metro Turbo's which certainly did receive the right bits, but didn't go onto achieve the class success they most surely would've because of ARG's withdrawal mif way through '84.

There was also a Mazda 929 that ran in Holland and some ETC events which would also have been in the upto 2500cc class.

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Old 5 Nov 2006, 21:30 (Ref:1758518)   #71
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My Father John Morris did lease the car for the TT that year. Unfortunatly his Co driver destroyed the car in the final few minutes of practice at Abbey. From what I rememebr the car was written off.
My father had been involved earlier that year with the car and was asked to test it at Goodwood along with one or two others including Sheene with a view to drive it in that years British Saloon Car Championship.

I could write chapter and verse on the VW Scirroco, It ate its front tyres and suffered an overheating problem, which was caused by an incorrectly positioned header tank. The car was always very quick in practise, but very rarely manged to finish a race........Now if anyone could point me in the direction of the wherabouts of his old Flyer Roller Skates Black MK 1 Golf, I would love to know. It was the ex Richard Loyd Akai car, my father then sold it to Alan Minshaw before building the Scirroco

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Old 6 Nov 2006, 18:22 (Ref:1759255)   #72
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My Father John Morris did lease the car for the TT that year. Unfortunatly his Co driver destroyed the car in the final few minutes of practice at Abbey. From what I rememebr the car was written off.
My father had been involved earlier that year with the car and was asked to test it at Goodwood along with one or two others including Sheene with a view to drive it in that years British Saloon Car Championship.

I could write chapter and verse on the VW Scirroco, It ate its front tyres and suffered an overheating problem, which was caused by an incorrectly positioned header tank. The car was always very quick in practise, but very rarely manged to finish a race........Now if anyone could point me in the direction of the wherabouts of his old Flyer Roller Skates Black MK 1 Golf, I would love to know. It was the ex Richard Loyd Akai car, my father then sold it to Alan Minshaw before building the Scirroco
Thanks for all this added info Mr Morris, So if that Supra got totalled, I wonder if it ever got resehelled?

Didn't you have a crack at prodsaloon racing with a Golf yourself in the early 90's?

(Off topic) Blimey you've certainly asked a good question about the Mk1 GTi! John raced it in Grp1 and then the first year of Grp A didn't he? I often wondered if the yellow car that Alan Greenhalgh ran was bought from John and thought Minshaw's was a different car altogether?
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Old 6 Nov 2006, 19:11 (Ref:1759294)   #73
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Best I can do I'm afraid, taken at the International Trophy meeting at Silverstone in April '85. The BTCC was a support to the first ever F3000 race.



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Old 6 Nov 2006, 19:14 (Ref:1759298)   #74
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That Capri in front looks like Mark Fowlers from CTCRC Group 1.
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Old 6 Nov 2006, 19:18 (Ref:1759300)   #75
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Andrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAndrew Kitson should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It is of course Vince Woodman, one of the great saloon car drivers.
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