2014 IndyCar schedule

[Marcus666]

Dreaming of an Indycar race at Lausitzring (again)! Come to Europe!!!

[codename_47]

Since the die-hard Indycar fans would like the track diversity weighted in favour of ovals (60/40 is the ratio I keep seeing, with the 40 having to be shared between road courses and street tracks), to have the Indianapolis road course taking up a road course date on the schedule when proper racing tracks such as Road America, Watkins Glen, Laguna Seca and many more sit on the sidelines is a massive shame.

I don't care about the history associated with the venue, no roval is ever going to compete with a specially designed road course.

I even put on the Moto GP this weekend to have a look at the current track layout.
That course is designed for bikes and will not produce anywhere near exciting racing that even the F1 race put on when they got over themselves and raced a full field.

You don't go all the way to Disneyland just to eat at the Mcdonalds.
And you don't go all the way to the fabled indianapolis oval with oval racing cars then don't race the oval!

If IMS needs to be on the schedule twice, pull a NASCAR and schedule a shorter distance race (maybe a night race?) at the other end of the season.
Running at Daytona twice doesn't hurt the Daytona 500 brand, so get over yourself Indycar and do it that way.
The road course is NOT where these cars belong...

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Since the die-hard Indycar fans would like the track diversity weighted in favour of ovals (60/40 is the ratio I keep seeing, with the 40 having to be shared between road courses and street tracks)

Really? I guess I'm not a die-hard IndyCar fan.

Originally Posted by codename_47

I don't care about the history associated with the venue, no roval is ever going to compete with a specially designed road course.

If there are many IndyCar fans in Indiana, then it won't hurt to have a second venue there.

Originally Posted by codename_47

And you don't go all the way to the fabled indianapolis oval with oval racing cars then don't race the oval!

It's not like they are ditching the Indy 500.

[The Happy Track Fan]

Anyone that saw the crowd at Mosport (CTMP) for the NASCAR Truck race yesterday should know and realize that Mosport needs to be back on the Indy Car schedule.

I DETEST TORONTO as a circuit and everything it stands for, but if they are hell bent on keeping the silly thing to appease the sponsors, then so be it.

But....

Take one of the double header races from Toronto and put it at Mosport in 2014.

There was some estimating that there may have been 30,000 at the Toronto Indy for Sunday. I would say that is very, very generous at best. Likely 25,000.

Mosport had at least 50,000 people for the Truck race yesterday. Every nook and cranny of that place was MOBBED. I mean everywhere. We watched on the hillside on the infield between Turns two and three. You couldn't move or find an empty spot of grass on either Turn Two or Three yesterday.

If they have to put a couple of chicanes in to Mosport to slow them down, so be it. They can do it without ruining the original layout, and it would allow the Indy Cars to come back to Mosport.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by The Happy Track Fan

Anyone that saw the crowd at Mosport (CTMP) for the NASCAR Truck race yesterday should know and realize that Mosport needs to be back on the Indy Car schedule.

I DETEST TORONTO as a circuit and everything it stands for, but if they are hell bent on keeping the silly thing to appease the sponsors, then so be it.

But....

Take one of the double header races from Toronto and put it at Mosport in 2014.

There was some estimating that there may have been 30,000 at the Toronto Indy for Sunday. I would say that is very, very generous at best. Likely 25,000.

Mosport had at least 50,000 people for the Truck race yesterday. Every nook and cranny of that place was MOBBED. I mean everywhere. We watched on the hillside on the infield between Turns two and three. You couldn't move or find an empty spot of grass on either Turn Two or Three yesterday.

If they have to put a couple of chicanes in to Mosport to slow them down, so be it. They can do it without ruining the original layout, and it would allow the Indy Cars to come back to Mosport.

It does beg the question though, would IndyCar attract that size of crowd?

[The Happy Track Fan]

Well. The Trucks are the 3rd rung on the NASCAR ladder and they got a crowd of that size yesterday.

Indy car might not draw quite as many, but Mosport would definitely, absolutely outdraw Toronto.

There are a lot of people I know who like open wheel racing, but - like me - will not go to Toronto because it is lousy for viewing.

Bring em to Mosport, and those fans will be there.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by The Happy Track Fan

Well. The Trucks are the 3rd rung on the NASCAR ladder and they got a crowd of that size yesterday.

Indy car might not draw quite as many, but Mosport would definitely, absolutely outdraw Toronto.

There are a lot of people I know who like open wheel racing, but - like me - will not go to Toronto because it is lousy for viewing.

Bring em to Mosport, and those fans will be there.

I believe Toronto's going to be off the 2015 calendar because of the Pan Am games, in which case IndyCar should stay ahead of the game and include Mosport in the 2014. As it is Canada definitely needs to host more than one race. Vancouver was good back in the CART days.

[Purist]

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the track layout at Toronto. And what do you even mean by "what it stands for"?

Putting in a couple chicanes at Mosport would be as pointless as running the layout they do at Sears Point. It would foul-up the track's existing passing zones, but likely wouldn't add any good new ones. And the ones that might be created would be as likely to trigger spins and jam-ups as they would to produce a successful overtaking maneuver.

If you put in a chicane between Turns 1 and 3, there won't be passing at Turn 3; the run out of Turn 2 is already short as it is. Adding one at Turn 4 would make the run into Turn 5 too short. A chicane on the back stretch would mean Turns 8 and 9 would be flat, and the run into 10 isn't straight enough for long enough to line up a conventional outbraking pass. Putting the chicane at Turn 8 would ruin that final 8/9/10 sequence. Mosport is a high-speed, momentum track; if you break that, you break the racing there itself. It's not unlike the detrimental effects of the chicanes at Monza, but Monza still at least has four stretches long enough for slipstreaming; Mosport doesn't have that, nor the outright length to have that. Aside from all this, they would be Mickey Mouse, make-shift chicanes that would force the cars to go through single-file. Doesn't that sound like something we've been complaining about on a circuit in a major East Coast city? Hmm...

If they would have to ********-up Mosport in order for IndyCar to consider it up to standard, it's no longer worth going.

[rwintle]

Those with long memories may recall that Mosport has had a chicane around turn 4 before now... someone who knows better can remind me if it was for Can-Am, or WSC. A long time ago.

The 2015 Pan Am games in Toronto are a real concern - I really cannot see how the two events (IndyCar and Pan Am) can co-exist if the schedule stays similar to recent years (i.e. IndyCar in mid-July). Remember, Toronto's contract is only through 2014. Let the speculation begin.

As for Mosport/CTMP - I would love to see IndyCars there. Can anyone who's been to the other IndyCar road course events (Mid-O, Sonoma, etc.) comment on how much more fencing (if any) would be likely?

As for NASCAR trucks at Mosport - if it was that busy, that's good for the track, but I'm glad I didn't go.

[NaBUru38]

Th Band group the group has financial issues. It is set to drop television coverage in Brazil, and will stop paying for the São Paulo race. The prefeito still wants the race, but will need more sponsors.

[The Happy Track Fan]

Originally Posted by Purist

I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with the track layout at Toronto. And what do you even mean by "what it stands for"?

Putting in a couple chicanes at Mosport would be as pointless as running the layout they do at Sears Point. It would foul-up the track's existing passing zones, but likely wouldn't add any good new ones. And the ones that might be created would be as likely to trigger spins and jam-ups as they would to produce a successful overtaking maneuver.

If you put in a chicane between Turns 1 and 3, there won't be passing at Turn 3; the run out of Turn 2 is already short as it is. Adding one at Turn 4 would make the run into Turn 5 too short. A chicane on the back stretch would mean Turns 8 and 9 would be flat, and the run into 10 isn't straight enough for long enough to line up a conventional outbraking pass. Putting the chicane at Turn 8 would ruin that final 8/9/10 sequence. Mosport is a high-speed, momentum track; if you break that, you break the racing there itself. It's not unlike the detrimental effects of the chicanes at Monza, but Monza still at least has four stretches long enough for slipstreaming; Mosport doesn't have that, nor the outright length to have that. Aside from all this, they would be Mickey Mouse, make-shift chicanes that would force the cars to go through single-file. Doesn't that sound like something we've been complaining about on a circuit in a major East Coast city? Hmm...

If they would have to ********-up Mosport in order for IndyCar to consider it up to standard, it's no longer worth going.

Purist:

I admire your posts and you are most definitely entitled to your opinion. So, please don't take what I am about to say the wrong way.

"Everything it stands for" regarding the Toronto Indy is just that. Everything it stands for.

That race has NOTHING to do about what is best for racing, or Indy Car racing in general, or as a series. It is not about trying to grow a fan base (and by that I mean a real, honest to goodness, follow the whole series fanbase). It may have started out as being something more noble, such as bringing a major racing event to a major Canadian city. However, it has simply degenerated into an event only put on to bring attention to the City of Toronto, and to appease the sponsors who want the attention of having their cars in one of the largest metropolitan cities in North America.

Now. I am not saying there is anything fundamentally wrong with that. But....

When the City of Toronto only cares about what the race looks like on TV to appease their sponsors, and fundamentally only cares about the corporate suites and bodies in those suites, and only cares how many restaurants are full and how many hotels are full, and doesn't give two s**ts about the purchasing public and what they can actually see when they go to the race live and about the comforts of the fan and the fan exerpience when they go, then the whole exercise is pointless.

Most of the grandstand locations are horiffic. The Grandstand tickets are horrendously expensive. The public can't bring in any of their own food or drink and are forced to purchase overpriced food concessions inside. The security and race control is constantly over-bearing to the point of being nauseating. And for General Admission, good luck! Half the track is now covered with mesh fence and the general public can't get to any of it to watch.

It stands for nothing but corporate greed and money. It does nothing to serve the overall good of the series. And, as such, most of the people who do go are once per year customers who never go to another Indy Car race or any other type of race. They don't realize how much better it is anywhere else because they don't have anything to compare it to. Most people care about it for the one year it's in town, and forget about it the other 51 weeks per year. Same with most street and temporary circuits. So you end up with a lot of races that most people care about for a limited time and don't really care much for the rest of the year. This, my friends, is what is fundamentally wrong with Indy Car racing. Street racing does not work. It's a nice party for a few days, but it is not what Indy Car needs for it's long term health.

As for Mosport, I am sorry, but I do not agree with you. As one person recalled, they put up a chicane in 1995 going into corner 4 and one just before the crest of the back stretch. They were poorly designed. With some serious thought, they could be really good. Those two chicanes are all Mosport needs right now, with the exception of paving the run off area going into and exiting corner 3. Corners 1 and 2 are massively safer now with the paved run-off, and corner 3 would be the same. And, two properly designed chicanes at the top of corner 4 and just before the crest of 8, could provide two potentially interesting passing areas without neuturing the track. So long as the originally layout can be left ( a la Lime Rock), then no problem.

Just my opinions. But, I have been following this game and sport a long, long time and been to an awful lot of different types of circuits to know what fundamentally works well and what doesn't.

It's time for Toronto to go. Time for Baltimore to go as well. Bring back Mosport and bring back the racing on a real road course, to real, hard core, passionate fans who truly care about the sport. If the City of Toronto is truly interested in the fans who love Indy Car, they would promote a Mosport race as the Honda Toronto Indy at Canadian Tire Motorsports Park. They would offer shuttle buses up to the track and back for a nominal fee and the restaurants and bars and hotels could offer weekend packages around the whole event.

[Purist]

At some level, EVERY event for IndyCar, NASCAR, etc is focused on the corporate types. They are needed to pay the sanction fees and other costs. Heck, hasn't the Daytona 500 started having a presenting sponsor? They're talking about naming rights for the Indiapolis 500. Long Beach, Detroit, Baltimore, and Houston are happening at all because of corporate sponsors, and the lack of said sponsors is why Road America, Cleveland, Portland, and Laguna Seca are NOT happening.

I don't see paved run-off as an improvement; it enables drivers to be less careful (i.e. more hazardous in their behavior). And that perceived, increased margin will impact their aversion to risk-taking not just at that one track, but at EVERY race they take part in. Also, you don't lose control, which means it's less likely that you even discern that there is a problem. You might keep on trying to get it back all the way into the wall, like a pilot doing "1G all the way in". Losing control lets you know that you have definitively passed the limit. Its value is not unlike that of physical pain, which lets you know when you are doing something that can and will harm you.

On top of this, tarmac run-off does not arrest errant vehicles effectively. In the 2011 Sprint Cup race at Watkins Glen alone, I saw two or three guys plow pretty much straight into the hard barriers, because the new paved run-off had NO noticeable effect on their speed going across it! On ovals, I've seen cars power all the way into the inside wall, because the area to the inside of the back straight was all paved, so they accelerated into the concrete as if they were still on the track! I don't care if a gravel trap causes the inconvenience of a FCY; when done properly, it stops the vehicle in an efficient but graduated fashion, which also protects the driver.

The paved run-off has taken the sting out of Eau Rouge, Pouhon, and Blanchimont at Spa! Now, Turns 1, 2, and 8 at Mosport have met the same fate! If you don't want to go off in those places, don't make the mistake that puts you off in the first place. If you respect you fellow competitors, you will try not to make a mistake that puts them off either. The tracks and corners that were loved and respected gained that distinction because there was no choice but to respect them. If you didn't, they bit back, hard! If the NECESSITY to continue to show that respect is taken away, the love and respect shown those venues will fade away as well.

I think I've yet to see even one "interesting chicane" that was also a passing spot; I'd have to look up quite a few tracks to decide whether I think what I consider a chicane even can be "interesting". A fast chicane MIGHT be interesting, but it wouldn't provide enough need for braking to promote overtaking. A slow chicane would be (almost) inherently uninteresting, and really, probably nothing more than a drudgery.

Putting in a chicane cannot help but neuter Turn 4. It won't be fast enough to give that pucker factor if there is a chicane in there. Afterward, the run to Turn 5 will be too short, with not enough braking at the end, to be a good passing zone anymore. Turns 8 and 9 will lose their challenge, and become merely an easy-flat acceleration zone if there is a chicane before Turn 8. Both places would likely require earthworks and taking out more trees. The track is only 30ft wide, and space between the barriers in both sections is limited. Within just those confines, I don't think you could do much more than what IMSA did when the WSCs ran there, and that would just look tacky and amateurish now. It also would NOT accomplish your goals, THTF.

From my personal viewpoint as a spectator, either live or on TV, the chicanes and tarmac REALLY detract from the aesthetic of the entire place. They make it, on some fundamental level, less enjoyable. It's harder to tell where the track even is. You lose frames of reference to get a sense of speed and excitement. (And if my father or brother is watching, they're making constant comments about how stupid it is, because there might as well be no track boundaries at all!) I might also add that, in person, those large expanses of tarmac have a significant impact on the ambient temperature at the track; they make the place warmer, which if it's already borderline comfortable to too hot, is NOT a good thing. I suspect you have experienced rather warm day in a park-like setting, and not far removed from that, experienced similar conditions while standing in a parking lot; there IS a marked difference in how the two feel, and one is unquestionably more pleasant than the other.

Finally, do you really trust IndyCar Series' management to execute those "well thought out" chicanes in the first place? Do you honestly think you can count on them demonstrating that level of competence?

I'm not upset with you, but I'm at my wits end about regarding the whole situation with Indy Cars, Sportscars, etc in North America, and I DON'T want to see another great, classic circuit messed with! Okay?

[The Happy Track Fan]

" I'm not upset with you, but I'm at my wits end about regarding the whole situation with Indy Cars, Sportscars, etc in North America, and I DON'T want to see another great, classic circuit messed with! Okay? "

No worries mate. Like I said. We are both passionate about this thing called racing, so that is a good thing. We just view things differently.

I can understand much of what you say about Mosport.

Having said that. The new pavement saved approximately 5-6 significant impacts against the wall at the bottom of Corner Two.

I will take the neuter factor and live with it. If it saves even one life and in the process, elminates a TON of yellow flag, pace car periods, I am all for it. It may not look esthetically pleasing, but I would rather have Mosport like it is rather than no Mosport at all. If they had left the place the way it was, there would have been nothing but club racing left at the place in the next few years, and I do not want to see that.

[NaBUru38]

The season finale on Labor Day cold be held at Detroit, according to some forum rumours.

Fontana could turn into a proper night race, but I still think that doing Houston in summer is crazy.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The season finale on Labor Day cold be held at Detroit, according to some forum rumours.

Fontana could turn into a proper night race, but I still think that doing Houston in summer is crazy.

I can't quite see Detroit being the "season finale"... typo?

Also, I agree - Houston may turn into another Dallas GP if we're unlucky.

[NaBUru38]

No typo, that's the rumour. It has happened before (2007 and 2008).

[Yannick]

Detroit was really good this year with the revision of the circuit that has been done before the season. Yet, ending the season close to Labor Day is way too early - even if it already were to start in February.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The season finale on Labor Day cold be held at Detroit, according to some forum rumours.

Fontana could turn into a proper night race, but I still think that doing Houston in summer is crazy.

Having the season finale at Detroit leaves the series with a very long off season. Finish the season in October at Fontana. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Detroit was really good this year with the revision of the circuit that has been done before the season. Yet, ending the season close to Labor Day is way too early - even if it already were to start in February.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Belle Isle circuit. It's one of the last of the classic parkland road courses in the world and would be a great jewel in the crown of the season's champion. But I agree - Labor Day is WAY too early for IndyCar to finish its season.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Having the season finale at Detroit leaves the series with a very long off season.

Indeed! There's the international minicup thing, but...

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Finish the season in October at Fontana. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Or do Houston and Fontana in late September.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Indeed! There's the international minicup thing, but...

If they go ahead with this mini cup thing, they should do so with a view to expanding the season.

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Or do Houston and Fontana in late September.

Finishing in September still leaves a very long off season.

[Teretonga]

Finishing in September is a nonsense. If they are serious about an international or even a national series it needs to finish late October early November at least.

Running a winter series will have no real interest to anyone in the USA and not much to anyone outside the USA if the Indy 500 isn't a part of the overall programme that the away races are involved with.

[Birddog07]

Won't happen, but all the useless street circuits need dropped. St. Pete, Toronto, Baltimore, Houston, Sao Paulo. Long Beach and Detroit are really the only good street courses in my opinion. Could all be filled nicely by Sebring, Mosport, VIR, Austin, and Interlagos. Cleveland would be a welcome addition. I'd also love to see Portland, Laguna Seca, Mexico City, Montreal, Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Mont-Tremblant, and Indy Road Course.

My vision of Indy Car is to race mainly road circuits with a few exciting street courses and speedway ovals thrown in. Street courses being where car racing started out, and ovals complimenting the Indy 500. A good street course is few and far, and the ovals don't matter much as long as they are fast and exciting. 20 race calendar with 5 ovals and the rest road curses and a few good street circuits.

[Purist]

VIR is closer to the population centers of North Carolina than to the two big ones in Virginia, and it's not up to standard. Sebring wouldn't be considered up to standard; it's too bumpy, doesn't have enough catch fencing, and narrows up too rapidly at multiple points around the lap. They'd probably have to neuter Mosport even more for IndyCar to go there.

Austin might be nice, but they can't even get a decent camera angle on the best sequence of corners around the entire lap because the run-offs are so massive and are paved. It looks like a parking lot through the Esses, and the actual spectator viewing is even further away. Also, assuming they've planted the trees, it's going to take time for them to grow and provide decent shade around the circuit.

Bernie won't hear of Indy Cars running at Inerlagos; he tried to have the street circuit stopped by lobbying Charlie Whiting to not approve it.

Road Atlanta would need work, at least in the debris fencing department. Mexico City may be getting butchered for F1, so there might be nothing worthwhile left of it by the time they're done. Mont Tremblant isn't interested in top-level events, needs facilities work, and the neighbors might take issue with the Indy Cars visiting.

There isn't an active "roval" that I would want to see the Indy Cars on. (The Monza combined circuit and the full course at Montlhery are dead and buried.)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Won't happen, but all the useless street circuits need dropped. St. Pete, Toronto, Baltimore, Houston, Sao Paulo. Long Beach and Detroit are really the only good street courses in my opinion. Could all be filled nicely by Sebring, Mosport, VIR, Austin, and Interlagos. Cleveland would be a welcome addition. I'd also love to see Portland, Laguna Seca, Mexico City, Montreal, Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Mont-Tremblant, and Indy Road Course.

My vision of Indy Car is to race mainly road circuits with a few exciting street courses and speedway ovals thrown in. Street courses being where car racing started out, and ovals complimenting the Indy 500. A good street course is few and far, and the ovals don't matter much as long as they are fast and exciting. 20 race calendar with 5 ovals and the rest road curses and a few good street circuits.

I don't think racing did start out on street courses. The Manufacturer's Challenge Cup in 1902 took place at the Grosse Pointe track owned by Henry Ford.

http://www.firstsuperspeedway.com/ar...ldfield-winton