Best Drivers...?

[helterskelter]

I never said it's a secret, I never said it's something special per se, but look at all the things he does and the way he behaves and at his approach towards racing. To Priaulx, racing is something about the mind first, and then about your 'heavy right foot', and anyway more than just stepping into the car, going out and do your job successfully.
One thing is to relax yourself, another thing is if you have an exam at university or a job interview and you use the feelings you have had in those relaxation moment, have the mind power to recall them and have the necessary serenity to do your job at your best. You try to be under pressure for an European Championship and see. I think that was the difference between Dirk Muller and Priaulx at that time: they had the same car, actually Priaulx was a non-works which of course was a disadvantage for him, Muller had done some promotional laps around the circuit while Priaulx had only seen maps. Priaulx emerged European Champion because he was more prepared, both phisically and mentally. And i rate Dirk very highly as a driver, I'm not saying he was underprepared but I'm saying Priaulx was overprepared. Of course the car has played a big role, nobody wins with a bad car, but when you have a good one you still have to take the best out of it, which is what Andy always did against the other BMW drivers.
And yes, a lot of you were making fun of it, then you said it's not a secret but a largely recognized technique... I'm not talking about alpine skiers or bobsleigh drivers, I'm talking about Wtcc drivers who do that and use visualization. You don't just walk on the beach and become a super driver, but if you combine all the things together, you will have good results. I agree with Super Hans, his achievements are a mix of all those factors, but again nobody managed to combine those factors better than him before this year, in Wtcc.

[chunder]

I think in all honesty Andy is just applying the sort of techniques normally reserved for single seat driver to a saloon car, its called professinalism and I would bet any driver worth his salt does it in reality.

One thing you can not do is argue with results. It is clear to me that there are one or two guys out there quicker than Andy maybe, bue he is aggressive in the right places, careful in others and knows that luck if bad at one time will be good another.

Guys like Farfus, Muller and others seem to be far more "live for the moment" and take unecessary risks that make them look quicker, and pay off more often than not I guess

But when they dont pay off they dont get results anhd Andy is getting his 6ths and on rwo two for next race.

He is not a Senna, Alesi, he is a Prost or Schumacher, very much a thinkers man, and thats why he wins titles, not necessarily every race!

[Dani Filth]

for once .. chundy makes sense

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by chunder

I think in all honesty Andy is just applying the sort of techniques normally reserved for single seat driver to a saloon car, its called professinalism and I would bet any driver worth his salt does it in reality.

One thing you can not do is argue with results. It is clear to me that there are one or two guys out there quicker than Andy maybe, bue he is aggressive in the right places, careful in others and knows that luck if bad at one time will be good another.

Guys like Farfus, Muller and others seem to be far more "live for the moment" and take unecessary risks that make them look quicker, and pay off more often than not I guess

But when they dont pay off they dont get results anhd Andy is getting his 6ths and on rwo two for next race.

He is not a Senna, Alesi, he is a Prost or Schumacher, very much a thinkers man, and thats why he wins titles, not necessarily every race!

18 race wins from 2003 to 2008 don't seem too bad to me, though. And of course Priaulx is a champion in his mind, not in his right foot, like I said before, and that's what makes the difference between him and others. If you go for race wins, you might get the glory of 1 day, but if you look at the championship you get much more glory and enter the history of the sport, like Priaulx did. I'm not sure you can't compare Senna's system to Andy's; what I think is that Senna had such a bigger amount of talent than anybody else in the history that he did things that were risky for the rest of the drivers, but not for him. On the other hand, I have to say that this "mind" approach is very similar to Senna's, and the dedication is pretty much the same. And again, not all single seater drivers do this, I would say that not a lot of them use these methods, actually, and I've never heard a Formula One driver talk about meditation, except Senna.
And again, this is a Wtcc topic and we're talking about people who do this kind of stuff and race in the World Championship: Andy might have mutuated this from other disciplines than TC, but this actually paid off and I still can't see anyone who uses this kind of approach. I repeat, let's stick to the Wtcc and tell me who else uses this kind of method in racing a TC.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

I still can't see anyone who uses this kind of approach..... tell me who else uses this kind of method in racing a TC.

This site claim to work with many series including BTCC and WTCC
http://www.sun1400.com/Who%20we%20work%20with.html

Giovanardi describes his mental approach.
http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews...5079eb38f3c9bd

MSA provide coaching sessions that include visualisation techniques.
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/n.../pdfs/4009.pdf

and Dunlop Drivers' club describe how visualisation is important.
http://www.driversknow.co.uk/article...=Ready_to_race

While not everyone here may have had the privilige to meet many TC drivers, or had the inclination to read all TC drivers' biographies, I can pretty much assure you that Priaulx is not the only driver to use visualisation techniques and he is not the person to have adapted the technique from other sports.

He has obviously found the technique to be of a use to himself, which is probably why he makes reference to it in his book. It doesn't mean it is the only reason for his success and he shouldn't be hailed as a genius for using this technique. All succesful drivers find techniques that help them, and once they find one that works will stick with it.

How many times have you read that someone is superstitious in their race preperation? It doesn't mean their success is a result of the superstition, just that it helped them to be in the right frame of mind.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

which is probably why he makes reference to it in his book.

Or that he wants to earn more money so by including it in the book gives it credibility.

'Andy is working to engineer the drivers of the future. If you are looking for the ultimate edge in your racing, visit Andy Priaulx Performance Management'

Or that he has been paid for endorsement...

“I achieved 13 pole positions and 13 wins in a row”. “To become a racing driver takes determination, confidence and money. To become a winning racing driver takes a bit more. My remarkable success is down to the personal empowerment techniques of The Silva Method. The Silva Method gives me supreme concentration and confidence which are both greatly needed in the very competitive sport of motor racing. I am now committed to using the Silva techniques for the rest of my career”.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

I still can't see anyone who uses this kind of approach.

Sounds like it's even being used by 14-yr olds....

http://www.automobilsport.com/david-...e---39558.html

'Fourteen year-old Jody Fannin, from Surrey, added: “There are a lot of points from the session that I hope to use in the coming season. I’m going to be concentrating a lot more on how I think and my mental attitude, especially before a race weekend. I will be determined to stay positive and visualise my perfect lap, because then I will know exactly what I can do in the racing seat.” '

[chunder]

The only difference I would make with Priaulx and Senna (otehr than talent of course) is that Senna's mental approach allowed him to do things that for me simply are not on.

I have no issue with determination and belief, but allowing ones mind to think "I will ram him off at the first corner if I dont get a better start" is plain wrong and suicidal

AS Prost said "If he wants it that much he is welcome to it"

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by chunder

The only difference I would make with Priaulx and Senna (otehr than talent of course) is that Senna's mental approach allowed him to do things that for me simply are not on.

Another difference is that Senna had charisma to burn.

[helterskelter]

Clients have been, are and can be involved in the following car racing series: ...Wtcc, Btcc,... So no clue they ARE involved in these series. Also, they are doing exactly what you charge Priaulx of doing.


Giovanardi added: “I can’t explain it because it is coming naturally. Maybe one of my strengths is that I can get used to the speeds and the levels of grip quickly so that is why I enjoyed the four victories in 2007. Ultimately, your limit is coming from your mental approach. You cannot control that. This makes the difference. It is coming from your mind and your body.” So what? Where are the walks and the training in a sauna? He says that he does naturally what Priaulx trains, some people have good results because they're naturally inclined to have a good mental approach, but in the end Priaulx prevails because he trains it.

This is not a superstiton, this is true mind training and it does give effects: you are saying that everyone uses it first, and then that it's not useful. Make up your mind.

Also, inform yourself, APPM is for free, doesn't earn anything from it, he does it because when he was young he would have wanted someone to give him those tips. He talks about the Silva techniques because they are his partners, but Silva is never nominated in his book. In the anticipations that came out about his book, he never talked about mental training, just talked about training in a sauna.

As for the 14 years old boy, we already said that he didn't invent the method, but that nobody else uses his methods in the Wtcc. And we also said that it HELPS him to be at the top, not that it's the main reason why he wins. The main reason is talent and intelligence; intelligence that he trains to make it better, which others don't do.

Believe me, Hans, Priaulx has a lot of charisma, or I wouldn't be so keen on him. I already said about him giving me his signed gloves just because he found I was a special fan, and if you talk to him you can't think of anything else.

[crmalcolm]

When did I say that the technique is not useful? A lot of people are using it so it must be useful.

APPM might offer free assesments and tips, but it all adds to 'brand Priaulx'. The home page invites me to 'buy the book' and visit his own website.

The Silva website contains direct links to Priaulx's page. He might not mention the company by name, but he does mention the technique. I don't believe that no money will have changed hands.

In post 61, you said 'you should read Andy's biography: this is not my opinion, it's HIS opinion and I think he knows best. He claims that everytime he has to go to Macau to fight for the World Championship he takes a walk on the beach in Guernsey, absorbs the inspiring nature and feels the sand between his toes'. That sounds a lot like mentioning mental preperation.

IIRC, John George uses the same driving coach as Andy. This would indicate that while the technique helps some, a lot of other factors are required to make a championship winning driver. Unless you think that John Pratt won't have passed on the techniques to George?

[helterskelter]

Again, you think I'm saying that Priaulx wins ONLY because of this. Obviously he's not, otherwise anyone who learns these techniques would be a triple world champion!
Silva methods are not for free: sometimes, commercially, you get to have an exchange between advertising and offering services for free. This might be the case, Priaulx enjoyed the Silva methods by giving them advertising for free, and anyway if Silva sells more, nothing goes in Andy's pocket. Of course, if I'd written a book, I would want it to be sold, not just write it for my children to read it one day when daddy gets old: does it mean he lied to sell more copies?
Also, there is a contraddiction: if he lied, he doesn't use these methods, which means he doesn't find them useful. On the other hand, you admit that he uses these methods... So, does he use them or not?
John George: Apart from the fact that we are talking about a non-professional driver who just likes to have a go at an important championship like Btcc, you have to say that the owner of a company isn't likely to take too much time walking on the beach or visualizing hundreds of laps three weeks before a race. Also, I NEVER said that these techniques make you become a super driver, but you have to sum up with other factors. But training the mind has a huge effect on a driver, I can assure you. The dedication Andy puts in his job makes him, if not unique, a very rare kind of driver. Also, the walks on the beach were not Pratt's idea, but Andy's. That came after the meditation courses and all of that, so he has improved on those things to have that something more that you need to be better than the others. He says that however good you may be prepared, there is always someone who could have done it better than you did, so you have to do something more in order to be superior compared to him.
Finally, I don't understand why you reported my post. If it is for Giovanardi, he clearly states that you can't control it, while Priaulx believes the opposite, so I think that you brought evidence of you being wrong about this. He clearly states "your limit is coming from your mental approach. You cannot control that." And I rate Giovanardi very very highly, but in my opinion at the moment there's nobody like Priaulx. If it is for the 14 years old boy, again, we said that mental preparation is helpful and very important, but you need some more stuff to be even a champion, nevermind a superchampion!

[crmalcolm]

Did I say that Priaulx had lied? I have agreed all along that he uses these methods, just pointing out that it is nothing special for him to be using them as many others already do. Priaulx is not unique in using visualisation techniques, even amongst TC drivers, he is just more succesful than most and so as a result the techniques may be a contributing factor.
Giovanardi obviously has a different mental approach, it doesn't mean either method is the best option as both drivers have been hugely succesful.

[helterskelter]

But he uses the methods in a different way. Look at how much research you did and still you didn't find any Wtcc or Btcc professional driver who does what he does. In a world in which a tenth of a second is an eternity, details pay off. If you are a works driver and you are not Monteiro or Genè, of course you are talented, but this kind of details make a driver more successful than the others. A title might be a result of luck, two can be a result of a huge amount of luck, three titles put no doubt on your talent, four titles get you in the history. To do that you can't just be an ordinary driver with the best car, you have to face other elements, and Priaulx did. As simple as that.

[crmalcolm]

What a small amount of research revealed was that Priaulx appears to be the only driver who describes their mental approach, while a lot of other coaching aids offer the visualisation technique as a good method to adopt.

So far, the only driver we know who does what Priaulx does is himself, the only drivers we know who don't are Giovanardi and Muller.

You say I didn't find another driver who uses Priaulx's technique, how many drivers can you confirm do not use the same or similar methods?

[awrb]

Other WTCC drivers could use these. You seem to be saying that because no one knows wether they use these techniques or not, they don't. Until you ask every single driver in the WTCC wether they like to visualise laps before races or wether thay mentally prepare for an event and they all say no, we don't know. Just because they hven't told the world they like to walk on beaches doesn't mean they don't.

ALL drivers will mentally prepare. Priaulx does this well. Others do also.

(sorry crmalcom, didn't see your post. I haven't just copied you.)

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What a small amount of research revealed was that Priaulx appears to be the only driver who describes their mental approach, while a lot of other coaching aids offer the visualisation technique as a good method to adopt.

So far, the only driver we know who does what Priaulx does is himself, the only drivers we know who don't are Giovanardi and Muller.

You say I didn't find another driver who uses Priaulx's technique, how many drivers can you confirm do not use the same or similar methods?

All the BMW drivers, Larini and Huff, Yvan Muller and Rydell. Don't know about the others, to be honest. And of course Giovanardi, as we found out from the research you have made. Also, I have to say that Fabrizio doesn't even train in the gym, he claims the races are so short that there's no need to, which is what made Priaulx more effective than him in Dubai 2004, I believe.

Not ALL drivers mentally prepare, and you can be a great driver even without mental preparation. But this factor, added to the talent, the natural inteligence and the fact that he loves his job so much make Priaulx special, IMO.

[werner]

To be honest, you don't have to be a very good athlethe to race 2x 50km a day. Especially when you see F1-drivers drive 90 minutes with much higher G-forces, Prototype-racers do 3hr stints into the night, MotoGP-racers manhandling a 170kg beast between their legs or dakar-drivers rallying all day long, including having to push the car out of sandpitts several times.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by werner

To be honest, you don't have to be a very good athlethe to race 2x 50km a day. Especially when you see F1-drivers drive 90 minutes with much higher G-forces, Prototype-racers do 3hr stints into the night, MotoGP-racers manhandling a 170kg beast between their legs or dakar-drivers rallying all day long, including having to push the car out of sandpitts several times.

It's true, you don't need it, but if you are more phisically prepared you can stand these races much more. It's true that F1 drivers drive with higher g-forces, but the temperature in August in a touring car is scary, and if you're not well prepared you will suffer. Diefenbacher fainted right after the Dubai race, and it was a 20 minutes race, so... If you don't suffer phisically, your mind is more ready to respond to the stuff that happens during the race. Giovanardi has a natural tendency to stay focused and have his mind clear, and he is blessed with that, but not everyone can...

[werner]

Being Italian, Giovanardi should also be a bit more used to hight temperatures, compared to a Brit or a German.
When it is to be expected that conditions will be hot and difficult to bear, I must say though that not preparing yourself properly, as obviously Priaulx did, and Diefenbachter did not, is very very unprofessional, and is a mistake of both the driver and the team. I mean, if put milions of euro's in a racing-program, it is stupid not to put some effort in making sure your driver is able to show the cars abilities for the whole race.
I would not call 'training in a sauna' as a special sign of Priaulx extreme dedication, but more as a smart thing that every serious athlete should do. I would be surprised, dissapointed, yes maybe even a bit offended, if the number of factorydrivers who did such things to prepare themselves where a minority.

[helterskelter]

Training normally in a gym is ordinary, wearing your racing outfit and do kick boxing in a sauna for 1 hour and a half to prepare for 2 50-km races is special. That is exactly what I'm talking about when I mention Priaulx's "something more" that makes me admire him more than any other driver. Of course Diefenbacher was exactly the opposite example, and I think you're right when you say it was very unprofessional, though he managed to finish both races due to the adrenaline rushes you have during a race.
Anyway, I'm Italian and I've been racing in Italy both in June and in October, and I can tell you that there's not much difference. In October, weather almost rainy, 12° atmoshpere, you get into the car and it's fu**in' hot! That's because in touring cars you have to race with your windows closed, cause if the air creeps from the windows you can lose a little bit of top speed, and lose maybe the 0.003s by which you missed the pole position, so you always keep them closed. Also, in touring cars the engine is normally at the front, and its heat warms the cockpit up. Finally, once it starts getting hot, it won't get colder, because with your racing suit on and everything you have to wear, the warmth of your body doesn't transmit to the air but stays in the suit, in the balaclava and so on, so that even if you race in Debcember with a touring car, you will sweat!

[werner]

I have no doubt that you will get hot in a touringcar, but I'm also that the heat will just be a bit heavier in an average Italian summer compared to a Britisch summer, and that the desert will be even hotter. And yes, I've bin in Italy in the summer twice.
I've once seen a few interviews with formula 1-drivers before the Malasian GP. The interviewer asked drivers how they prepared for the hot and humid conditions. Indeed most of them had their trainingscedules altered so they exercized in conditions comparable to the local weather. Zanardi joked that he prepared by making love with his wife in the sauna. Professional and fun ;-)

[helterskelter]

Again, Formula 1 but not Wtcc. I'm not saying Andy invented them, I say he's the only one who does this in the top TC series. Of course in Italy it's hotter, but as I told you there's not too much difference talking about in-car temp between hot and cool weather. The huge difference is humidity.
Yeah, Zanardi's way is the best