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Old 8 Jun 2014, 10:14 (Ref:3416855)   #1
PVDA
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PVDA should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPVDA should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPVDA should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Can local Race Control over rule visiting Race Director ??

In light of discussion in this closed thread

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141704

The question has to be asked "Can the locals over rule the series blow ins"??
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 15:31 (Ref:3416935)   #2
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your question is delightfully non-specific! If you refer to the two named Race Directors, there can only be one Race Director for a race, the other one might be assigned to another duty or simply stands down. So I don't think your 'over-rule' situation exists but would like confirmation from those who can speak with absolute certainty.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 17:13 (Ref:3416975)   #3
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kipper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkipper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The following extract from the FIA International Sporting Code may clarify:

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11.10.3 The race director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the Course may give orders in respect thereof only with his express agreement.

11.10.3.a The control of practice and the race, adherence to the timetable and, if he deems it necessary, the making of any proposal to the stewards to modify the timetable in accordance with the Code or sporting regulations;

11.10.3.b The stopping of any Automobile in accordance with the Code or sporting regulations;

11.10.3.c The stopping of practice or suspension of the race in accordance with the sporting regulations if he deems it unsafe to continue and ensuring that the correct restart procedure is carried out;

11.10.3.d The starting procedure;

11.10.3.e The use of the safety car.
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Old 8 Jun 2014, 20:31 (Ref:3417096)   #4
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AndyT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
so in plain English, the locals cannot overrule the Race Director
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 11:03 (Ref:3417452)   #5
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The following extract from the FIA International Sporting Code may clarify:
As always, rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools!! Any visiting Race Director who does not work in with local Clerks and Officials would, to my mind, be classified a fool. None of the visiting Clerks/Race Directors I know would fall into this category; I suspect the early release incident referred to was a simple error of judgement or communication when there was a lot going on in Race Control.

As someone who has spent much of the last ten years or so as Clerk/Race Director for support races at major events (LMS cars, German DTM, etc) in continental Europe and further afield, I have always been happy to concede circuit control to local officials who know the circuit and how it works. Where I was Clerk/Race Director for the whole meeting, I always arranged in advance to have a local official to work with me.

In Abu Dhabi I had the local Circuit Manager - Gary Dearn, ex-marshal then Circuit Manager at Silverstone - as my "helper", plus several other ex-Silverstone personnel on radios and recovery etc. Rescue units were manned by current operators shipped out from the UK. It was like old home week!

It is all about working together. I have worked with the Race Director for Blancpain and have always found him very helpful and great to work with. I suspect there was no conflict here, just an error of judgement that can happen from time to time. Thankfully, no great harm was caused.
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Old 9 Jun 2014, 18:48 (Ref:3417734)   #6
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Shelagh should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridShelagh should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridShelagh should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
George, my view of race control during "big" events, or small, has always been from the background. But, as you say, it all boils down to who knows what and use the local knowledge.

My current hero is Eduardo. Now there is someone who keeps it all under control. Next up is Bernie (Cottrell not Ecclestone) who has given me more pleasure in race control than you, I, or anybody else should even start imagining!
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Old 10 Jun 2014, 16:15 (Ref:3418209)   #7
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As always, rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools!! Any visiting Race Director who does not work in with local Clerks and Officials would, to my mind, be classified a fool. None of the visiting Clerks/Race Directors I know would fall into this category
I couldn't agree more!!! I don't think anybody carrying out the roles of Race Director or Clerk of the Course should be in any doubt as to the 'chain of command' and, in practice, it works well without formality and with very friendly cooperation.
I remember, working with Eduado Freitus in Portugal (incidentally the very best Race Director in the world in my book, which is why he does Le Mans ) when I apologised for not speaking portugese he said "it's OK - we only speak it when we don't want you to know what's going on.
Seriously, whilst I know there was an incident, giving rise to this question, I suspect that the 'relative seniority' of those in charge was not the cause.
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Old 10 Jun 2014, 17:20 (Ref:3418241)   #8
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Next up is Bernie (Cottrell not Ecclestone) who has given me more pleasure in race control than you, I, or anybody else should even start imagining!

Does Bill know about that ?
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Old 11 Jun 2014, 05:36 (Ref:3418406)   #9
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Shelagh should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridShelagh should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridShelagh should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Tony - you win the "prize" - I wondered who would be first to comment!

I shouldn't have singled out Bernie (!). I hope he forgives me.
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Old 11 Jun 2014, 07:46 (Ref:3418448)   #10
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Tony - you win the "prize" - I wondered who would be first to comment!

I shouldn't have singled out Bernie (!). I hope he forgives me.

It must be the way my brain works!!

I'll get my dirty raincoat
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Old 11 Jun 2014, 12:51 (Ref:3418545)   #11
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I couldn't agree more!!! I don't think anybody carrying out the roles of Race Director or Clerk of the Course should be in any doubt as to the 'chain of command' and, in practice, it works well without formality and with very friendly cooperation.
I remember, working with Eduado Freitus in Portugal (incidentally the very best Race Director in the world in my book, which is why he does Le Mans ) when I apologised for not speaking portugese he said "it's OK - we only speak it when we don't want you to know what's going on.
Seriously, whilst I know there was an incident, giving rise to this question, I suspect that the 'relative seniority' of those in charge was not the cause.
Eduardo speaks four languages fluently, three others less fluently and when we last met he was polishing up his Russian! As a Scot who learned English as a second language, and knows how to order beers in several languages, I am mightily impressed! He also bought a copy of "50 Years of Motorsport Marshalling"!
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Old 11 Jun 2014, 13:06 (Ref:3418552)   #12
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There's a story of an errant driver being brought before Eduardo in Race Control at Silverstone for a talking to. Not an English or Portuguese native speaker, but known to talk to his team in English.

Eduardo started telling the driver the error of his ways in English. When the driver ) shrugged and indicated he didn't understand, Eduardo switched to the driver's native language without missing a beat.
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Old 11 Jun 2014, 15:36 (Ref:3418701)   #13
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I think we're going to have to set up an "Eduardo Fan Club". Top marks to the guy!
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Old 11 Jun 2014, 18:50 (Ref:3418851)   #14
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He sounds like a good candidate for Motor Sport's 'Lunch with...'
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Old 12 Jun 2014, 04:14 (Ref:3419039)   #15
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He sounds like a good candidate for Motor Sport's 'Lunch with...'
What a fantastic idea!

Who knows anyone at the magazine?

(BTW: can I do the lunch ?)
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Old 12 Jun 2014, 10:16 (Ref:3419143)   #16
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Mark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMark Mitchell should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
My Race Director at the weekend, Charles, along with his deputy Michael, incorporate "Local" protocols within their usual standard way of doing things.
For example, in N America, the "Green Flag Lap" doesn't normally have Green Flags waving! So, for the avoidance of confusing many local Marshals, it's not done! The drivers had already had 5 hours of track time prior to the race so were probably aware of where the flag points were anyway!
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Old 13 Jun 2014, 09:38 (Ref:3419834)   #17
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The drivers had already had 5 hours of track time prior to the race so were probably aware of where the flag points were anyway!
Can we ever be totally sure about that ???
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Old 15 Jun 2014, 02:24 (Ref:3421247)   #18
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He sounds like a good candidate for Motor Sport's 'Lunch with...'
Good idea but we have lost the most charismatic, Don Truman. His drivers' briefings were classics. To Formula Ford drivers at the height of FF fame, "Formula Ford drivers, for ***** sake don't"; to anyone who missed the chequered flag, "If you see the chequered flag once, you may have won the race; if you see it twice you have won yourself a bollicking".
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Old 16 Jun 2014, 08:28 (Ref:3422431)   #19
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Good idea but we have lost the most charismatic, Don Truman. His drivers' briefings were classics. To Formula Ford drivers at the height of FF fame, "Formula Ford drivers, for ***** sake don't"; to anyone who missed the chequered flag, "If you see the chequered flag once, you may have won the race; if you see it twice you have won yourself a bollicking".



Many more "Trumanisms"

The Green bits ours – The Black bits yours !

For the 99% of you who haven’t read your final reg’s!

If you can come up with an excuse I’ve never heard before I will let you off otherwise come up and see me with your trousers neatly folded over your arm !
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Old 16 Jun 2014, 13:40 (Ref:3422604)   #20
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Many more "Trumanisms"

The Green bits ours – The Black bits yours !

For the 99% of you who haven’t read your final reg’s!

If you can come up with an excuse I’ve never heard before I will let you off otherwise come up and see me with your trousers neatly folded over your arm !
Don's sayings were always priceless, weren't they?
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Old 16 Jun 2014, 19:09 (Ref:3422720)   #21
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Don's priceless
Fixed your post for you

A class act, very much missed. It would be a bold visiting Race Director that did something without his approval!
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