The Great Debate - Is Drifting motorsport?

[Al Weyman]

How can Powerboat racing be classified as Motorsports, don't follow that?

[MagnetON]

Ok, so what do you consider to be motorsports? And if you are going to say "wheels", then what do you consider snowmobile racing?

[silver bullet]

If it's got a motor and it involves taking part in competitions IMHO it's motorsport.
All things included F1's to lawnmower racing, Top Fuel Dragsters To Tractor Pulling. Powerboat Racing to Rally Raids.

[R59]

Al, if you want to see some extreme "wet" motorsport - take a look at Jet Boat racing. Big V8's, tiny boats, around a little course. A bit like a rally stage for boats. It's awesome to watch. As I don't like getting wet, I'll stick to the tarmac!!

And, yes, motorsport encompasses anything powered by a motor, petrol, or otherwise.

Rob.

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by racing59

And, yes, motorsport encompasses anything powered by a motor, petrol, or otherwise.

[Al Weyman]

As cyberdorf's picture graphically points out no I don't agree that everything with a motor in it qualifies as Motorsport and I don't think Motorsport News does either by their content and title. So what about racing airplanes and stunt flying, and for that matter model airplanes on a control line, I don't think so. In my book Motorsport is for wheeled vehicles mainly cars.

[silver bullet]

Point taken, regarding the chainsaw, that is how you say... the exeption that prooves the rule.
Maybe we should say wheeled motorsport & non wheeled motorsport.

Mind you aeroplanes have wheels

[Al Weyman]

The word Motorsport surely comes form the word Motorcar not snowmobile, powerboat or anything else, I just don't getthe argument. Oh and not all airplanes have wheels:-)

[silver bullet]

I've just checked the Concise Oxford Dictionary and it says
motor sport n. = MOTOR RACING
motor racing n. the racing of motorized vehicles, esp cars as a sport.

[Dutton]

Just to add to above definitions:

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

Motor

1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.

2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.

3. A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: “It was a night of lovers. All along the highway... motors were parked and dim figures were clasped in revery” (Sinclair Lewis).

The chainsaw example shows the exlcusion of driver/pilot control in our definition.

If we said anything that is motorised, moves along a plane, and requires a person to be travelling on it/in it as it moves along said plane? Something like that?

Al, motor racing clearly comes from the word motor. A motorcar gets the motor part because it has a motor!

How can you not call motorised boats competing on a circuit motor racing? What else is it?

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

I've just checked the Concise Oxford Dictionary and it says
motor sport n. = MOTOR RACING
motor racing n. the racing of motorized vehicles, esp cars as a sport.

What is the definition of "racing"?

[Al Weyman]

How can you not call motorised boats competing on a circuit motor racing? What else is it?

Thats obvious, its powerboat racing, simple as that, the Sky channels Men and Motors etc do not feature these sports nor does Autosport, Mororsport News and many other mags so thats good enough for me.

So in essence what this view that anything with a motor is motorsport says is that we can start a totally irrelevant thread here on Snow mobile racing or lawn mowers, school buses whatever here nothing to do with car racing (parc ferme aside) and that would be acceptable?

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So in essence what this view that anything with a motor is motorsport says is that we can start a totally irrelevant thread here on Snow mobile racing or lawn mowers, school buses whatever here nothing to do with car racing (parc ferme aside) and that would be acceptable?

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40363
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25952

[Al Weyman]

Does absolutely nothing for a purist MOTORSPORTS fan like me:-)

[R59]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Does absolutely nothing for a purist MOTORSPORTS fan like me:-)

I am a purist MOTORSPORTS fan too.

Lawnmower racing is racing, and good fun too. A summer evening sport if you ask me! (it's a countryside thing Al!!)

To be picky, not much different to truck racing, just much smaller scale!!

Now tractor pulling is probably the greatest expression of horsepower through wheels of any sort anywhere on the planet. Imagine 3 x V12 supercharged Allinsons tuned, turning out 3000bhp each.... come on Al, that has to do something for you? Or 6 x Keith Black 500 Hemi's, each turning around 1200bhp.....

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

No sorry Rob all of those examples leave me cold especially that abonimation of motorsport, Truck Racing. I just hate it with a passion and see absolutely no scense in it at all, horrible smoking things talk about giving the green lobby ammunition. Tractor pulling another joke, I just don't get it sorry.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by racing59

Al, if you want to see some extreme "wet" motorsport - take a look at Jet Boat racing. Big V8's, tiny boats, around a little course. A bit like a rally stage for boats. It's awesome to watch.

Awesome doesn't do it justice. I got taken to see them, and to say that the reality didn't match the impression I'd formed from the description would be an understatement. Kind of like expecting to see an autotest and getting WRC instead. Fantastic. And the noise...

Sorry, I think I dribbled on my keyboard.

[Al Weyman]

Look I like power boat racing, got no problem with that but I would not want to buy my copy of Motorsport News or MotorSport and start reading about boat racing in there. Same as I would not expect to find a section on this forum dedicated to powerboat racing, its different does'nt mean its not good just not 'Motorsport' in the true and sense of the word/phrase/terminology. (IMHO of course).

[Woolley]

Yes, I know what you mean about the mag. The forum, though, is 10-tenths, and anything motorised being raced is up for discussion. I'm personally not too sure about the whole drifting concept as a sport. I enjoy ice skating, but I can't quite take ice dance as a sport either.

[R59]

Actually tractor pulling wouldn't fit in here, because there's no doubt about that - it's probably closer to 24-10ths due to the amount of extra boost they run.

Al - you like tuning? Take one 6 litre tractor engine, normally producting 150bhp, then add two extra turbo chargers making it three stage, weld the head to the block to stop it from popping it's studs, and wind up the pump. Hey presto, over 1000bhp of nasty whistling smoky diesel (makes the truck racers look clean!!)

If you find it pointless, it's like the rally drivers who see what we do as pointless. We just go round and around and around...

Tractor pulling rarely makes it into the likes of Autosport or Motorsport News, but very very rarely find's itself in Farmers Weekly.

It's a countryside thing.

Oooooo Arrrrr

Rob.

[Al Weyman]

So if tha the concept lets foget the tractors lets just line up some Superflow Dynos and invite competitors along with their engines for a shoot out to see who gets the most power, actually I quite like that idea :-).

As for Ice Dancing I used to feel the same till I had this lady working for me who used to represent Great Britain and I tell you they are very tough and brave competitors, that can be one hard sport, the knocks they take is unbelivable as seen on the recent TV show, they are very tough cookies believe me.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

As for Ice Dancing I used to feel the same till I had this lady working for me who used to represent Great Britain and I tell you they are very tough and brave competitors, that can be one hard sport, the knocks they take is unbelivable as seen on the recent TV show, they are very tough cookies believe me.

Well off topic, I know, but I'm well aware of their skills, and it's fabulous to watch, but is it sport? err? I do amateur dramatics (musicals) which is similar, but it's not sport either. Really can't understand why some people take their plays to festivals. Competitive drama? No thanks.

So neatly back to topic. Drifting, very skillful, pretty spectacular, but sport? err? Not sure.

It certainly is motorized, though, and Nat+Club fulfills the role of 'everything else that doesn't generate sufficient traffic to justify its own forum' so it's fans are quite welcome to discuss it here.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

So if tha the concept lets foget the tractors lets just line up some Superflow Dynos and invite competitors along with their engines for a shoot out to see who gets the most power, actually I quite like that idea :-).

Nope, that's not the concept.

The concept is to pull the "sledge" down the course, where the weight on the sledge is driven forwards onto the plate, and the speed that the weight, and the actuall mass, defines the difficulty of the pull.

It's about driver skill, as much as sheer horsepower/torque. Too many revs and you'll just spin, not enough and it'll bog down, get it right, and you should manage a full pull (pulling the sledge the full distance within the limits of the course)

It's "drag racing on dirt - gone mad"

Rob.

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Thats obvious, its powerboat racing, simple as that, the Sky channels Men and Motors etc do not feature these sports nor does Autosport, Mororsport News and many other mags so thats good enough for me.

So in essence what this view that anything with a motor is motorsport says is that we can start a totally irrelevant thread here on Snow mobile racing or lawn mowers, school buses whatever here nothing to do with car racing (parc ferme aside) and that would be acceptable?

Yes, so you are talking about motorcar motor racing.

That is just one branch of it.

Why is snowmobile racing, lawn mower racing, or school bus racing not motor racing?

Ach, well, nevermind.

There are clearly irreconcilable differences in perspective.

[Al Weyman]

Well I think as it so happens that Drifting is probably a lot closer to what I have as a definition of Motorsport than any of the above cited examples.