Räikkönen versus Vettel 2017

[F1Guy]

Vettel get's this round (and will every round for the rest of the season).

This is not a contest. Even if Raikkonen has a sniff of finishing ahead of Vettel, Ferrari will pull the plug. Raikkonen had "brake issues", and ran wide. Guess who was behind?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Vettel get's this round (and will every round for the rest of the season).

This is not a contest. Even if Raikkonen has a sniff of finishing ahead of Vettel, Ferrari will pull the plug. Raikkonen had "brake issues", and ran wide. Guess who was behind?

You're right. Ferrari sabotaged Kimis brakes pre-race because they predicted Vettel would mess up the start and lose his front wing.

[chillibowl]

lol

to be honest though, even if Kimi didnt have any issues he would have yielded the position and points. it is the right thing to do when your team mate is fighting for a title.

the guy who the track is named after would have done the same thing...some might say its a Ferrari thing but its also a very Canadian thing to do!

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

You're right. Ferrari sabotaged Kimis brakes pre-race because they predicted Vettel would mess up the start and lose his front wing.

That's kind of a stupid thing to say, it's very easy to pretend to have a brake issue if you want to switch positions.
I just wish Ferrari were more honest about it, and that the rest of the teams, media and fans stop being so pretend shocked about team orders like it's some kind of a faux pas.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

That's kind of a stupid thing to say, it's very easy to pretend to have a brake issue if you want to switch positions.
I just wish Ferrari were more honest about it, and the rest of the teams, media and fans stop being so pretend shocked about team orders like it's some kind of a faux pas.

So Kimi sailed off the track and was complaining on the radio about brake settings because he was acting?

[ASCII Man]

I don't know what problems Kimi may or may not have had, I'm saying that in general it's easy to fake an issue if you need to switch, don't be so obtuse.

[Akrapovic]

Errr, did you watch the race? It was pretty obvious what problems Kimi had. He sailed over the chicane barely slowing down and was on the radio shouting about how he had a problem. It was very clearly real, and very clearly serious. So again, we're either suggesting Ferrari sabotaged Kimi before the race, or Kimi was acting to pretend he had a problem.

It's very easy to fake problems. But this wasn't the case. That's not me being obtuse, that's me answering the ridiculous suggestion that this event was staged.

Good lord people will go to some lengths to defend King Kimi won't they. I love Kimi, but sometimes he just isn't that good, and sometime he's unlucky too.

[S griffin]

Kimi had a genuine problem, and Vettel was on a mission after that pitstop. That's all there is to say

[stripedcat]

It was back to form. After Kimi's success at a pole, in Canada - Seb outraced him. I accept that Kimi's car was having problems, but Seb put in a stunning performance yesterday.

[S griffin]

Even with Kimi's brake problems, nothing was going to stop Seb, he was on a mission

[stripedcat]

Today it was all about the Kimister. Sure - he could have been 2nd, but he was still on the podium. I think that was his best performance of the season.

[VIVA GT]

Yep, the only consistent thing about Kimi is his inconsistency...

[Aysedasi]

Great effort by Kimi today. He deserved that second place.

[S griffin]

Bad luck for Kimi, but at least he got a bit of luck back when Vettel's tyre. Certainly was his best drive of the season, obviously we won't see it from him every weekend, so it was nice to see more of the old Kimi while it lasted

[newlaprecord]

I had some time to kill today at work, so did the math on how many points has Alonso scored on avrage during his time with Ferrari and the number is : 12.39.
The same thing for Vettel (in his 50 GPs for the team so far) is at 13.34 (and the number is even likely to further increase, as he tends to finish better than P4 recently).


Sorry I wasnt sure where to post this , but pretty telling stuff of the level Vettel performes at. Of course both him and Alonso have destroyed Kimi, there is no two ways about that.

[S griffin]

Fred though often had a car that was a step behind, especially in 2012

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Fred though often had a car that was a step behind, especially in 2012

Yep. Only in 2010 and 12 did Alonso have a Ferrari remotely good enough.

Vettel has had a pretty good one in '15 and a really good one this year.

Raikkonen is no.2 there and has been since he was re-signed!

That's how Ferrari want it at the moment.

I don't think there's much point comparing him to Vettel or Alonso in that environment.

[stripedcat]

It did look a bit closer today. At least Kimi put on a bit more of a determined race. Could he have overtook him? Probably not. Still, it was good to see that Kimi still wanted to win.

[S griffin]

Seb did have a problem, but Kimi still looked determined. If he had done it earlier in the season more often, he would probably be in the title fight and therefore able to pass

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yep. Only in 2010 and 12 did Alonso have a Ferrari remotely good enough.

Vettel has had a pretty good one in '15 and a really good one this year.

Well first the "remotely good" 5 wins 18 podium car...)

Also, Vettel's Ferrari's were painfully obviously just as good as Alonso's Ferraris for the most part, occupying the exact same area of the grid, sometimes challenging for wins, sometimes dropping back to fight off midfielders.

Besides, thats hardly even the point, its a FERRARI. its what you make of it for crying out loud. Ferrari will always give you the same, history, prestige, huge know-how and a huge budget, its how you use those tools , how you make all these components work for you, how you build (and re-build) the team around you, THATS what will make a Ferrari champion a Ferrari champion.

Ferrari dont give the world Brawn Racing type of world champions, whos been handed an absolute monster that was a clear second faster than anyone, so you just had to drive it home and beat the grandpa driving the same livery, Ferrari will give you a decent car, and you will have to become a part of the familia to make it a masterpiece together. Vettel certainly seems to be doing an at the very least an Alonso-league job at it so far at it, and my money on him not leaving the team without a title.

Alonso was very smug about Vettel's abilities when he took his place at Ferrari, and his hat should be already half eaten, with a generous splash of ketchup ready for the second half.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Ferrari dont give the world Brawn Racing type of world champions, whos been handed an absolute monster that was a clear second faster than anyone,

Errrr - were you watching the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Barrichello years? You know - when Ferrari had absolute monsters that were a clear second faster than anyone?

[newlaprecord]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Errrr - were you watching the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Barrichello years? You know - when Ferrari had absolute monsters that were a clear second faster than anyone?

it took 5 years for schumi to win his first title with ferrari ,he made that monster, which is exactly the point.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

it took 5 years for schumi to win his first title with ferrari ,he made that monster, which is exactly the point.

No - he dragged the early dogs of cars to decent results (like Alonso does) then when the 'super team' of Brawn/Todt and whoever else it was got their **** together he rode the unbeatable cars to multiple titles. Just like Vettel did with the Newey Red Bulls.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Ferrari will give you a decent car

Might.

Never forget the era spawned by the 312T5.

As others have mentioned, when Schumacher joined Ferrari they had a dog. He/Brawn/Todt/Byrne turned it into a donkey, then a pony, then a thoroughbred which dominated.

They're not immune to producing rubbish.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

it took 5 years for schumi to win his first title with ferrari ,he made that monster, which is exactly the point.

Vettel hasn't made anything! Nor did Schu. It's the Management and engineering/technical departments that come up with the goods. The drivers are paid to assist with development and have to make the most of what they've been given.