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Old 24 Jul 2017, 20:02 (Ref:3754059)   #2801
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Originally Posted by Jonerz View Post
http://nasportscar.com/what-is-visit...-racing-up-to/

Very curious. Are they shaking down a new Multimatic? If I may add to the conjecture in the article, I wonder if they're switching to Oreca-Gibson?

Chris
Could even be a Ligier. Prepping for a new DPi manufacturer?
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 20:06 (Ref:3754064)   #2802
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
These are expected results when you entrust for carbon tub based prototypes supplier a company that barely has experience in that field....

multimatic too in last years basically kept on producing parts projected by someone else (lola).
With such failure from Multimatic/Riley, ACO/IMSA should do allow other P2 chassis providers that has been let aside. Ginetta, Dome, even Norma why not. Or they should buy the design of another chassis to take as a base for a new car, as the Honda.

Something must be done, or we will have the next three years with just three chassises.
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 20:23 (Ref:3754072)   #2803
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Could even be a Ligier. Prepping for a new DPi manufacturer?
Wasn't there recently a quote form Onroak about the possibility of a new DPi? EDIT---Right, post 2795 above.

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Old 24 Jul 2017, 20:30 (Ref:3754075)   #2804
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Visit Florida Racing plans?


Photo: IMSA

Visit Florida Racing boss Troy Flis has made no secret about the fact that he isn’t happy with the current Riley Mk30 LMP2 chassis. VFR originally attempted to secure a Mazda RT24-P DPi but after the deal fell through they were left with the standard Riley Gibson package.

The season started well with a strong podium finish at Daytona, but it has all been downhill from their. The car was withdrawn from Long Beach after accident damage sustained in practice couldn’t be repaired, and the team hasn’t recovered since then.

Not surprisingly, the team has already started making plans for next season. NASportsCar reports that the team is scheduled to shakedown a “new car” on August 1st, with no other details.

What options do VFR have? A Cadillac DPi-V.R is not out of the question. GM will be looking to strengthen their grip on the IMSA field as Joest and Penske enter next year. If they have any spare chassis ready, VFR would be a good 4th GM team. If not a Cadillac just yet, then it could be a Dallara P217 LMP2 chassis, in preparation for a Cadillac in 2018.

If they are not moving to a DPi, there is also a possibility they could be testing an Oreca or Ligier chassis. The French chassis have proved far superior to the Riley, so could provide a significant boost up the grid. Onroak have hinted at being involved with another manufacturer, and IMSA have repeatedly thrown in comments about another unnamed manufacturer. Are VFR involved with someone new?*

What is not likely, are Mazda and Acura DPi cars. The Mazda is due to undergo significant development in the hands of Multimatic and Joest, whilst the Acura will be in the safe hands of Roger Penske and his team.

If the team are already scheduling a shakedown of the car, then they must have plans to run it soon. Whatever they have will most likely run the rest of the IMSA season. The next event is Road America, August 6th. Will the new car be ready by then? Watch for the entry lists to be published.

TAGS DPi Featured Riley Speculation VFR
Report by Dave Ellis / theRacingLine.net
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 20:49 (Ref:3754084)   #2805
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pardon my excessive nit-pickery. Remember ... you invited it.

“GM will be looking to strengthen their grip” I’d say “GM will be looking to strengthen its grip .... ” GM is singular, it is one company.

“as Joest and Penske enter next year. If they have any spare chassis ready, VFR would be a good 4th GM team.”

Here is why----“they” means GM ... but the direct antecedent would be “Joest and Penske.” So grammatically it is incorrect (nit-picky little BS, please pardon me.) Your subject jumps from “GM” to “Joest and Penske” and back to “GM” in two sentences which might be confusing to some.

Better might be, “What options does VFR have? A Cadillac DPi-V.R is not out of the question. GM will be looking to strengthen its grip on the IMSA field as Joest and Penske enter next year. If GM has any spare chassis ready, VFR would be a good 4th GM team.”

Then here ... “If they are not moving to a DPi, there is also a possibility they could be testing an Oreca or Ligier chassis.”

“They" is kind of vague, considering how many “they"s there have been ... and in the paragraph before, you use “it” ... I understand, “it” means “the car VFR chooses” but you don’t want to leave too many indefinite pronouns ((?) Is that a thing?) floating around.

I’d start with ““If VFR is not moving to a DPi, there is also a possibility the team could be testing an Oreca or Ligier chassis.”

There is a lot of leeway with grammar ... some copy-editors get all panicky about “A team is a unit—it is never ‘they’” while some are cool with the imprecision of spoken English. But it is always good to have number agree—whether you decide GM and Onraok are “it” or “they,” stay consistent, and keep all the pronouns the same—and make sure every time you use “they” people know immediately what you are talking about.

Another nit-pick:

“What is not likely, are Mazda and Acura DPi cars.”

“What is not likely is either a Mazda or Acura DPi car.” Or if you insist, “What are not likely, are Mazda or Acura DPi cars.”

What I’d say, (if I were creative enough to come up with it in the first place) might be “What is not likely is either a Mazda or an Acura Dpi.”
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 20:59 (Ref:3754087)   #2806
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http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/vi...-lmp2-chassis/

Ligier? Interesting. Of course, the selection of Riley-Multimatic or Multimatic-Riley, was thought to be due to a potential DPi program (AMG).

Chris
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 21:06 (Ref:3754092)   #2807
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I keep hearing about a new factory manufacturers okay.

But which team can do it, one that has the talent and resources.

Chip Ganassi is too busy with Ford right now.
Rebellion?
Andretti?
Anybody else?
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 21:28 (Ref:3754101)   #2808
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I think that Riley is dead in the water, unless Joest stay with them and Multimatic/Mazda don't totally jump ship.
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 21:28 (Ref:3754102)   #2809
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I keep hearing about a new factory manufacturers okay.

But which team can do it, one that has the talent and resources.

Chip Ganassi is too busy with Ford right now.
Rebellion?
Andretti?
Anybody else?
I don't foresee too much of a problem with that... Highcroft have shown that even teams that weren't what most people would consider a powerhouse before the factory deal can deliver great things once given the necessary resources. Just from the IMSA paddock, Shank and Starworks would be good candidates... and if you look beyond that into PWC and Indycar, there's probably half a dozen of teams that could run a competent DPi operation, if maybe not quite on the level of Penske or Joest.
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 21:32 (Ref:3754103)   #2810
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Riley is dead, now its just Multimatic P2
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 21:38 (Ref:3754104)   #2811
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I wouldn't exactly put it past Multimatic/Joest to switch the Mazda program to another chassis if they can, either. Depends on what tricks they have up their sleeves I guess.

Also, Troy Flis wasn't immediately available for comment it seems, but VFR should put out a press piece or announcement sometime tomorrow.
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 21:45 (Ref:3754109)   #2812
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I wouldn't exactly put it past Multimatic/Joest to switch the Mazda program to another chassis if they can, either. Depends on what tricks they have up their sleeves I guess.

Also, Troy Flis wasn't immediately available for comment it seems, but VFR should put out a press piece or announcement sometime tomorrow.
Something tells me if Mazda goes to IMSA and says we want to go with a new car and or engine or we are going to pull our sponsorship and team, IMSA is going to be like "ok, that's fine."
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 23:24 (Ref:3754114)   #2813
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“GM will be looking to strengthen their grip” I’d say “GM will be looking to strengthen its grip .... ” GM is singular, it is one company.
Not when you join my thought process and read it as GM France & Co.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 02:37 (Ref:3754138)   #2814
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There's nothing stopping Mazda from going to Oreca, for example. I think they'll stick it out with Multimatic and with input from Joest, basically make an entirely new car or aero package. I hope Maelochs doesn't critique my grammar btw
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 02:56 (Ref:3754143)   #2815
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When the homologation and first BoP process was taking was running before november tests at Daytona, from IMSA they said that a DPi car could change of brand, the bodywork could be modified, and the engine could be replaced ONCE A YEAR. The car should only have to pass by the homologation process and BoP test again.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/im...dpi-machinery/

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the aero packages will be locked in for the entire 2017 season, with manufacturers only allowed to request changes mid-year for the following season.

Such changes would be aimed for re-branding, and not necessarily performance related, Raffauf said.

“If they want to change the body, they can, but they have to apply for it, with a pretty good reason and then go through the whole process of model and full-scale. It would be re-evaluated as a new car,” he said.
There were another article, but I can't find it.

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Old 25 Jul 2017, 05:09 (Ref:3754156)   #2816
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Looks? Check. Aero performance? Check. But where I'm thinking there could be problems are the powerplants different cooling requirements. Don't want aero so dumbed down that it impacts engines performance and life. Production styling vs purpose-built racing lines. I'll withhold judgement until the product is racing next year. I'll give the series the benefit of the doubt they know of this potential issue. Wouldn't want say Mazda to have turbo failures due to cooling issues because of mandated production styling
These were my words in the USCC in 2016 and 2017 thread (post 3139). Scary thing is it happened! The BoP of aero and/or the production styling cues that can impact performance; in this case, cooling issues for the Mazda DPi. Joest taking over, and homologation not locked in yet. Me wonders if Mazda will go the Cadillac/Nissan route and ease up on heavy production styling? And as much as the updates allowed to DPi teams have the potential to be unfair for P2 teams, as they cannot upgrade, it was smart for the series to not lock in fully yet.

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Old 25 Jul 2017, 11:19 (Ref:3754211)   #2817
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Something tells me if Mazda goes to IMSA and says we want to go with a new car and or engine or we are going to pull our sponsorship and team, IMSA is going to be like "ok, that's fine."
This.

I am pretty sure every single major sports rule book (and every rule book written in imitation) has a clause in there somewhere about "Interpretation of the specific meanings of each rule and the specific application to specific situations is under control of the governing body," or some such similar clause which basically means, "we wrote the darn rule book, and whenever we want, we will rewrite it."

"Force Majeur," or whatever they choose to call it ... "in response to unforeseeable circumstances and uncontrollable situations we were forced to invoke Rule 0000 which is printed in .25-point type between two lines on the last page, which states that the rule book is only a suggestion."
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 15:22 (Ref:3754271)   #2818
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Guess I'm not saying nothing new, but even if 2018 mazda dpi will be built on a better chassis like oreca, with an improved aero package too; don't think there will be huge benefits if also joest will stick with that poor engine.
To me, that's the biggest issue of that car
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 15:51 (Ref:3754276)   #2819
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Joest will be able to get AER to make that engine last.

They won't accept it not.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 16:11 (Ref:3754280)   #2820
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Joest will be able to get AER to make that engine last.

They won't accept it not.

Actually, don't know if joest is an engine tuner too, but unlikely they could throw off >600Nm from that engine only because they wish
reliability issues is AER trademark, not to mention.

anyway, I still can't figure out one thing:
mazda struggles with AER tuned 2.0 L4 engines for almost 10 years, since lola dayson lmp2 early days if am not wrong, why have never they tried to knock cosworth door?
oreca too is a small engine tuner if memory helps
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 16:54 (Ref:3754295)   #2821
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I believe Mazda has a 2.5-liter twincam inline 4 in its Mazda6, so it could commission AER to do something based on a bigger block and still get some promotional crossover ... they could badge it “Mazda” and still fool some people.

I am not sure how quickly they could do it ... after all, AER has been trying to get the 2-liter to work for about a decade.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 17:09 (Ref:3754300)   #2822
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Repeat, to me the quickest solution is to rebadge gibson engine.
90% of average joe isn't intersted about tech. data and simply don't care if mazda dpi isn't powered by a mazda proper motor.

After all how many races and championship has audi won in last 15 DTM seasons using a audi badged honda unit?
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 18:27 (Ref:3754335)   #2823
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Repeat, to me the quickest solution is to rebadge gibson engine.
90% of average joe isn't intersted about tech. data and simply don't care if mazda dpi isn't powered by a mazda proper motor.

After all how many races and championship has audi won in last 15 DTM seasons using a audi badged honda unit?
That's NEVER going to happen with Mazda, they like the little engine and they'll ride it to the end. They like using 'their' products and have adopted that MZR-R as their own. There's zero chance they will switch to the Gibson over enlarging their lump. Dyson managed to break their RS spyders, other ways than engine I believe, so that's not really fair to compare their work to what Joest can and will do. It seems from multiple sources and interviews the car needs cooling and lots of it that the current Riley doesn't provide. I think Joest can work FAR beyond what you think they can, and are willing to tell Mazda what has to be done and WILL be done or they will fire Mazda.

It's not a matter of fans, MAZDA likes the MZR-R. Most of us here know it's nothing like the I4 in the street cars so using that argument to say they should go to the V8 cause who cares is a non-starter. The bosses seem to care and they write the checks. They beat the diesel horse until it became apparent they weren't going to make the street car. If they were still doing the Mazda 6 Diesel, they would have lobbied IMSA to keep a diesel allowance and kept running.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 18:45 (Ref:3754346)   #2824
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The ACO isn't allowing rebranding of the Gibson engine. I'm not to sure they'd like that happening in IMSA either. That's beginning to blur the lines between DPi and LMP2, and the ACO is wanting the LMP2s to stay stock.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 18:47 (Ref:3754347)   #2825
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Dyson managed to break their RS spyders, other ways than engine I believe, so that's not really fair to compare their work to what Joest can and will do.

I always found it amusing that no matter what Dyson ran, they managed to make it fail. Lola and Porsche could run trouble free at Le Mans, but not manage 2 hours in a Dyson. It was very odd.
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