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Old 23 Jul 2017, 16:52 (Ref:3753791)   #1051
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One lap doesn't justify that. There could be an agenda. When Ferrari are involved there is that possibility. Vettel said there was a lot of downwash coming off the back of his helmet. Therefore, I wonder how else the Shield was affecting the car's aerodynamics, or have Ferrari managed to get some aerodynamic tweak out of the Halo?
You could be right. Whatever the reason, I think it's nonsense that an entire concept has been binned after a lap. The problem doesn't exist in wind shielded cars, and in fighter jets. Yet apparently it cannot be solved in F1, despite it offering a potentially increased level of protection.
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Old 23 Jul 2017, 17:47 (Ref:3753797)   #1052
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For next season probably yes.

The aero around the cockpit including helmet buffeting, together with airflow into the airbox will need revised. Add to that fully integrating it onto the safety cell and designing the bodywork and access panels will take time, especially if access to the electric and neutral buttons need moved too.
The FIA have decided the Halo will be mandatory for next season, so why would the they bother with a testing program for the Shield next year?
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Old 23 Jul 2017, 19:40 (Ref:3753811)   #1053
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The FIA have decided the Halo will be mandatory for next season, so why would the they bother with a testing program for the Shield next year?
well if they care about safety their research should be ongoing in all regards.

whats the status of the other team's projects? is the Ferrari screen dead in the water now? RB i believe has stopped funding their project..what are the other teams up to?
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Old 23 Jul 2017, 22:15 (Ref:3753835)   #1054
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I'm hoping that the Halo is a do something for next season rather than nothing.

I think that all the teams and the FIA realise that the Halo isn't a final solution. I suppose by committing the the Halo for 2018 it gives time to further develop either the Ferrari style new shield or as I advocate the full canopy.
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Old 23 Jul 2017, 22:40 (Ref:3753839)   #1055
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If there are no major hiccups with the Halo between now and next season, I can see the FIA at the beginning of the next season, announcing they will drop the Shield completely, on grounds of unnecessary expense on developing an alternative system, when a perfectly adequate one is now in place.
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 02:10 (Ref:3753859)   #1056
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They want trickle down, which the Halo can do - it should be able to be fitted/adapted to almost any open cockpit racecar. Should it? A whole other question.

I applaud the desire to investigate and make safety changes, but there is an inherent risk and appeal that must also be considered. (I'd fully support a closed canopy that many have mentioned here, complete with side access hatch with explosive bolts.)
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 06:05 (Ref:3753878)   #1057
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You could be right. Whatever the reason, I think it's nonsense that an entire concept has been binned after a lap. The problem doesn't exist in wind shielded cars, and in fighter jets. Yet apparently it cannot be solved in F1, despite it offering a potentially increased level of protection.
Looking at the shield that Ferrari were running, in order to meet the criteria that it is not a full canopy the structure has to be reinforced to such an extent that the optics are like looking through a warped magnifying glass!
Impossible!
Why the FIA / F1 could not just adopt the canopy that was tested on the first page of this thread is just beyond comprehension.
Alternatively just make the standard canopy optional, the aero advantage would probably ensure that everyone adopted it, end of problem!
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 07:29 (Ref:3753883)   #1058
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People keep mentioning the deaths of Surtees and Wilson as a major reason for F1 implementing the Halo. Makes me wonder though - why have the racing categories that Surtees and Wilson were driving in, not done anything while F1 has jumped the gun??

They also mention Jules Bianchi as another reason why the Halo must be fitted. I do not believe for one second that the Halo, Aeroscreen or Shield, would have saved Bianchi's life. Possible that de Villota might have escaped injury during her test accident, but there's still debate whether her death was the result of her accident.

I am a fan of open cockpit racing, and in particular - Formula One, which has always been open cockpit. And should always be open cockpit. Formula One today is the safest open cockpit racing category there is. This is nothing more than a overreaction by the FiA to save their own ass. While other open cockpit categories, which would be more prone to deaths or serious injuries due to inexperienced drivers, continue to race with open cockpits!??
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Old 24 Jul 2017, 11:33 (Ref:3753924)   #1059
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People keep mentioning the deaths of Surtees and Wilson as a major reason for F1 implementing the Halo. Makes me wonder though - why have the racing categories that Surtees and Wilson were driving in, not done anything while F1 has jumped the gun??

They also mention Jules Bianchi as another reason why the Halo must be fitted. I do not believe for one second that the Halo, Aeroscreen or Shield, would have saved Bianchi's life. Possible that de Villota might have escaped injury during her test accident, but there's still debate whether her death was the result of her accident.

I am a fan of open cockpit racing, and in particular - Formula One, which has always been open cockpit. And should always be open cockpit. Formula One today is the safest open cockpit racing category there is. This is nothing more than a overreaction by the FiA to save their own ass. While other open cockpit categories, which would be more prone to deaths or serious injuries due to inexperienced drivers, continue to race with open cockpits!??
Jay Frye, IndyCar’s president of competition and operations, was interviewed recently in June about the new aero-kit for 2018 and cockpit protection.

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/n...18-car-919458/
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 06:52 (Ref:3754168)   #1060
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Cheers BJS, but as I said, F1 will have a head protection device for 2018. Will IndyCar and F2 have a head protection device for 2018? No they won't.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 06:55 (Ref:3754169)   #1061
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Cheers BJS, but as I said, F1 will have a head protection device for 2018. Will IndyCar and F2 have a head protection device for 2018? No they won't.
It's a race? Well LMPs won that race decades ago. In fact they have a full system too, not a halo.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 07:35 (Ref:3754177)   #1062
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It's a race? Well LMPs won that race decades ago. In fact they have a full system too, not a halo.
Did you read post #1058? My post has nothing to do with "a race" for a closed cockpit.

I was referring to open wheel categories where there have been driver fatalities most recently. Wilson in IndyCar, and Surtees in F2. None of those categories will have a head protection device in 2018. Why has F1 jumped the gun when it has had no fatalities that the Halo would have prevented??

Felipe Massa's accident at Hungary 2009 is also bought up in regards to why F1 needs the Halo. Have to ask, in the case of a similar situation as Massa at Hungary 2009, what if the spring - which would have hit the drivers helmet, but in 2018 possibly deflect off of the Halo and hits the driver in the chest - where he has zero protection?

If the spring hits the helmet there's a pretty good chance the driver will be fine. If the spring deflects off the Halo and hits the driver in the chest at 300km/h, I'm pretty sure he will not be fine. I think it would be a very serious situation for the driver.
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Old 25 Jul 2017, 14:04 (Ref:3754258)   #1063
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Cheers BJS, but as I said, F1 will have a head protection device for 2018. Will IndyCar and F2 have a for 2018? No they won't.
With IndyCar, any head protection device has been delayed because of the new 2018 aero-kit, that was only launched yesterday and which will now undergo testing from August through to September, before the teams get to evaluate it in November.

Don't forget, IndyCar also race on a variety of ovals and F1 doesn't and that will need to be taken into consideration. I don't know about F2 as I don't really follow it but as a major feeder series to F1, I expect it will follow in F1's wake, probably 2019?
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 11:38 (Ref:3754666)   #1064
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As a question which I don't know the answer to.

I'm assuming that the Halo will be a spec part. But from there will teams be able to add vortex generators or winglets onto it.

Or will it just be a stand item for all with no mods.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 13:28 (Ref:3754705)   #1065
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It would have to be a standard design, whether independently built or individually built to the spec.

They won't be allowed to add aero bits- I hope - as it they were to be hit or knocked off, they could be even more of a danger to the driver that not having the halo itself.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 14:53 (Ref:3754733)   #1066
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It would have to be a standard design, whether independently built or individually built to the spec.

They won't be allowed to add aero bits- I hope - as it they were to be hit or knocked off, they could be even more of a danger to the driver that not having the halo itself.
The Halo is going to have aerodynamic fairings will improve its appearance. I wonder if this is something Ferrari are working on, hence their one lap rejection of the Shield?

"While the halo will be a standardised part, teams will be allowed to fit their own fairings to minimise the aerodynamic implications." Or enhance them?

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130947
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 15:07 (Ref:3754737)   #1067
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What I don't get is why they are rushing through with the halo when they plan to use an improved shield in the future. I think there's something going on
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 15:15 (Ref:3754740)   #1068
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The Halo is going to have aerodynamic fairings will improve its appearance. I wonder if this is something Ferrari are working on, hence their one lap rejection of the Shield?

"While the halo will be a standardised part, teams will be allowed to fit their own fairings to minimise the aerodynamic implications." Or enhance them?

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130947


I wonder if that just means that it will be attached to the tub and the teams will be allowed to fit their bodywork around/over the mounting points. Rather than the test examples that bolted onto the top of the bodywork?
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 15:18 (Ref:3754741)   #1069
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What I don't get is why they are rushing through with the halo when they plan to use an improved shield in the future. I think there's something going on
The genie is out of the bottle, they have committed to forward head protection for 2018, the only thing that is remotely mature enough is the Halo.

I'd like to think as I've posted earlier, that the Halo will be a stop gap whilst either the shield that Ferrari produced is refined or as I 've said many times before an enclosed cockpit is developed.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 16:43 (Ref:3754771)   #1070
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a few days on i am coming to accept the fact that they will be on the 2018 cars so now i am kind of interested to see what the teams will do with them now that its been said that they will have some room to work the aero (although for sure that adds another element of danger with bits that might fly off).

but tying to find the positive, the one Williams tested was painted to match their white livery so that wasnt too bad looking. hid it a bit more anyways.

would also like to see the halo's personalized for the drivers though.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 18:46 (Ref:3754819)   #1071
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I wonder how long it will take to have some additional aero fairings like these

http://jaygl.org/tyrrell-025/3/
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 18:54 (Ref:3754823)   #1072
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My new conspiracy theory:

The facts:
1. The French hate everyone, but especially Americans.
2. Americans own F1.
3. Vintage racing is the fastest growing sector of motorsports.
4. Vintage cars don't have, and will never have, halos.
5. Bernie owns more vintage F1 cars than anyone else on the planet.
6. Bernie needs a new series to screw up, I mean run.

Bright idea:
Kill F1, bankrupt Liberty, start new series that people might actually watch, the value of Bernie's cars goes up, he is employed again and making another fortune. Job done.

BTW, at today's driver's press conference, Grosjean (head of GPDA), Verstappen, Magnussen, Hulkenberg, and Palmer against the halo. Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, and Perez for. Vandorne's reply was perfectly political. I can't tell whether he is pro or con.

Verstappen comments: I think as soon as I have that thing on my car, I don't like it. So the excitement is already gone before I am sitting in the car.

And Magnussen: "It takes away some of the passion that F1 is talking about. When you look at the car and it is ugly, F1 cars aren't meant to be ugly. That is the reason that a Ferrari is more exciting than a Mazda. It is something to do with passion. If it looks s**t, it is s**t!

Paul

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Old 27 Jul 2017, 22:30 (Ref:3754903)   #1073
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Has Magnussen had a look at the front of his current car?
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 02:55 (Ref:3754941)   #1074
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I actually agree with Hamilton for once - why go half arsed with the halo, put a proper roof on it.

The halo is clever in that it can incorporated into nearly every open cockpit vehicle.
The Ferrari shield was only ever a demo - it hasn't been tested for it's actual purpose, withstanding an object at 225kph.

It's a pity LMP1 (and the Ford GTE) went from large banger sportscars to aero device with enclosed wheels.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 11:19 (Ref:3755050)   #1075
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I wonder how long it will take to have some additional aero fairings like these

http://jaygl.org/tyrrell-025/3/
My opinion is that the rules should prevent attachment of anything to the halo and that it should have similar wording to that which governs the profiles of suspension components (aero neutral)

But I would not be shocked to find us discussing some type of unexpected aero exploits by one or more teams next year.

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