McLaren Sportscars

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

And I guess the number "59" on the side might be a possible hint that McLaren might be targetting the GTE class in the future, isn't it ?

#59 was also used when the 12C was presented. The number has a meaning but not a GTE meaning...

[Simmi]

Any excuse to roll out this image.

[rich07]

No excuse needed

[MyNameIsNigel]

Seems that a GTE-spec 650S may be contemplated by McLaren in the future:

(...)
McLaren GT boss Andrew Kirkaldy told AUTOSPORT: "I would be very surprised if you don't see a 650S running at Le Mans at some point and we hope to be there from 2016.
"That's what we want to do, but we still need a set of regulations to build the car to."
(...)
Kirkaldy revealed that the 650S was already a step in the direction of a GTE car as a result of the convergence concept.
"The new car is not far from a GTE car in some aspects, like the hubs, suspension and bigger wheels and tyres — it is a good step towards that," he explained.
(...)

(source: autosport.com)

[Victor_RO]

I'll believe it when I see it. Weren't they making the exact same statements when the 12C GT3 came out originally?

[MitchZ06]

12C GT3 was originally a GT2.

Considering how close to a GTE the 650S GT3 looks I think a bit more stock can be put into this one.

[carbon_titanium]

if mclaren has already a "GTE tuned" engine, 650 GT3 needs just some revised part (splitter, diffuser and rear wing) to become GTE.

[Simmi]

The ball is basically in the court of the ACO/FIA now. Would love to see McLaren back at Le Mans.

[MitchZ06]

I think if the ACO allows race specific turbo systems in GTEs we'll see a 650S GTE tomorrow. Seems to be the biggest sticking point as far as I can gather.

[Articus]

What did you mean by a "race specific" turbo system? Does Mclaren not want to run the stock turbo?

If so I don't see why they shouldn't allow a more robust turbo charger considering all the grants the other manufacturers have received. The engine would still be legal in all other aspects, less than 8 cylinders. Less than 4.0 liters, less than 25psi boost.

[MitchZ06]

LMGTE rules specify that the road car's turbo system must be used (turbos, BoVs, etc) and not race specific parts as allowed in GT3. Bit of a sticking point....also the 650S GT3 engine is a V8TT, 3.8L (rules allow 8cyl turbos).

[Deleted]

'LMGTE rules'? What, the same stuff I use to wipe my *** when I go to toilet, is that it?

[Articus]

If they want a race specific turbo system, they'll be allowed it. If they wanted to run the F1 GTR they'd be allowed. If they wanted to run Senna's Honda, they'd be allowed...

[MitchZ06]

And that allowance is probably what they're waiting on....

[tjh8402]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

LMGTE rules specify that the road car's turbo system must be used (turbos, BoVs, etc) and not race specific parts as allowed in GT3. Bit of a sticking point....also the 650S GT3 engine is a V8TT, 3.8L (rules allow 8cyl turbos).

Why not just run the engine normally aspirated? A 3.8L V8 in race trim should have no trouble putting out the GTE class standard 450ish hp. The Ford GT had its supercharger removed.

[MitchZ06]

McLaren sells high performance turbocharged cars, not N/A cars. Wouldn't work with marketing.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Articus

If they want a race specific turbo system, they'll be allowed it. If they wanted to run the F1 GTR they'd be allowed. If they wanted to run Senna's Honda, they'd be allowed...

So why doesn't bmw's Z4 GTE run in the wec? All the talk about bop is useless because is it really needed in every thread? We should be happy theres cars that could run soon.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by TF110

So why doesn't bmw's Z4 GTE run in the wec? All the talk about bop is useless because is it really needed in every thread? We should be happy theres cars that could run soon.

Did I miss something? I want them to run a race specific turbo. I know the ACO will let them do just that because it's a manufacturer. The rest of that was a joke. I don't really care that they are allowed it because everyone else got waivers.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Articus

Did I miss something? I want them to run a race specific turbo. I know the ACO will let them do just that because it's a manufacturer. The rest of that was a joke. I don't really care that they are allowed it because everyone else got waivers.

I wasnt directing that specifically at you. But the "bop is evil, it makes racing a sham" is a tired talking point.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by TF110

So why doesn't bmw's Z4 GTE run in the wec? All the talk about bop is useless because is it really needed in every thread? We should be happy theres cars that could run soon.

Marc VDS looked at running the Z4 GTE but apparently were turned off by its low top speed compared to its competitors. It's not such a problem in Tudor because the American tracks are twister then say Le Mans or Spa.

[TF110]

Wasnt too slow at Daytona!

[carbon_titanium]

about mclaren turbo

2012 : SRT viper fielded a car with an engine over the max. displacement = obtained a waiver

2013 : BMW fielded a car with a swapped engine from another model =
obtained a waiver

why mclaren should not receive a waiver to use a racing turbo?

To me the hardest part for mclaren is to tune the engine to make it reliable for 24 hours with the same competitive torque curve of the gt3 version (>600Nm for the most of the rpm range) even with shorter restriction and less final power/lower redline. More or less the same kind of work done by ferrari for the 4.5 V8 of 458:
458 GT3 = 540Nm@6000rpm -> 540hp@8000-8500rpm
458 GTE = 550Nm@5500rpm -> 480hp@6500rpm
the GTE engine has an higher torque curve even if the car uses shorter restrictors (usually 2x43 for 458 GT3 vs. 2x28.3 for 458 GTE)

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

I wasnt directing that specifically at you. But the "bop is evil, it makes racing a sham" is a tired talking point.

Of course it is but since BoP -and waivers- are so common in the class today it is pretty much the default talking point... why is that car so fast/slow, why does it run differently than last weekend, why does that car have something the others don't, why does etc etc. We cannot ignore and pretend they don't exist, right now they are as integral part of every GT car as are say the drivers. It is there to decide the outcome in the same manner. Hence when someone brings up the GTE "rulebook" it's rightaway point of conflict

[TF110]

Theres rules. Baselines for vehicles able to race. If there werent you would see dtm/gt500 cars in gte (which would be cool imo lol).

[Deleted]

As I always say, unlike in the past there are now more like general guidelines than actual rules in LMGTE. As in if there's a section that forbids the use of item X, it's less about "YOU CAN'T DO THIS" but more in the spirit of what they say on the side of the cigarette boxes ie "smoking is bad for you" = "you shouldn't do this but if you still want you can". So yes as a whole the models have to kinda conform the general idea of the regs to prevent what you said from happening but if literally any section of it can be ignored and granted exceptions it's not really a rulebook is it, just something that vaguely explains what the organizers would wish manufacturers to present to them...

And that's JUST waiver front, not BoP