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Old 4 May 2008, 22:47 (Ref:2194046)   #1
SZRacer
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SZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Michelin TB5 vs. Avon CR6ZZ

Hi all,

despite most of my (historic) races having to be on Dunlop L section historic racers, one of my race series allows Blue Book road/race tyres.

I've always used Avon CR6ZZs for this, since they do them in my wheel size (175/70 R15), and they seem to stick well.

However, recently, I've had (as have my friends) several cases of CR6s delaminating, often with very little use.

I noticed that Michelin have recently re-introduced the TB5, and apart from them being eye-wateringly expensive, I'm intrigued by them as an alternative to the ZZs.

Anyone have any experience of them, especially compared to ZZs??

Regards,

James
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Old 5 May 2008, 06:11 (Ref:2194174)   #2
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Personally I rate them very highly,better than ZZs! Only thing is I think you'll find that they are a bit limited as to where you can use them.
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Old 5 May 2008, 22:11 (Ref:2194716)   #3
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SZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks, Terence.

I'll give the HSCC a call tomorrow, and ask whether they allow them, then see whether I've been paid this month....

James

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Originally Posted by terence bower
Personally I rate them very highly,better than ZZs! Only thing is I think you'll find that they are a bit limited as to where you can use them.
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Old 6 May 2008, 14:53 (Ref:2195282)   #4
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Looking at the Longstone listings (here: http://www.longstonetires.fr/michelin-tb.php) I don't see a 175/70, but they do have 170/65 in TB5 and and TB15. Either way they are Dot and EC marked so count as road legal tyres. Dunno if it helps, but I raced against a chap who had the TB15's on his D-type and he swore by them. Said they gave him over a second against Yoko008, which are pretty quick tyres (that was what I was on and he drove away from me!) :-)

PS they link the ZZs in the same page (top left) so might be worth a chat with them on their experience of the difference.
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Old 12 May 2008, 11:38 (Ref:2199984)   #5
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SZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSZRacer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks all, for the advice re: the tyres.

I actually went ahead and fitted the TB5s, in 170/65 x 15 size, to my rims, and tested them out yesterday at Silverstone HSCC race.

The increase in grip over the Dunlops is phenomenal!! I actually shaved 6 (yes, 6!) seconds off my lap time on Dunlops.

Plus, I reckon i could have got more off, with a few more laps to 'push the envelope'. The increase in grip, and decrease in stopping distance is particularly noticeable, especially over the Avons.

However, two provisos:

1. I had to run the car with the same amount of negative camber (1 deg) as the Dunlop Ls. Result: I nearly shredded the shoulder of the tyre in 20 laps! I think these tyres require at least 3 degress of negative camber, certainly on my car.

2. The temperature was 25 degrees C at Silverstone yesterday, and these tyres were perfect for that. In lower temperatures, or if it had been raining, then I suggest that the ZZs may be a better 'all round' tyre.

I ran the tyres at 28psi all round. Not sure whether this was too high or too low.

But, they are a superb, very grippy, if eye-poppingly expensive tyre (over 200 quid in my 'small' size tyre).

HTH,

James
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Old 12 May 2008, 14:11 (Ref:2200171)   #6
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I would have thought 30-32 would have been better,the leaner is obviously rolling a little too much on the rim.Glad you like them though,they are nice to drive on.
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Old 13 May 2008, 07:59 (Ref:2200792)   #7
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Interesting results CZ. might have to put some on my list for Santa this year :-)

From what I understand, the camber thing can be due to tyre construction as well as pressure. I can only give my experience with Yokohamas, but I think you're finding a similar thing. My 032Rs have a fairly stiff side walls and like to run at 1-1.5 deg camber (at around 24psi) for even wear. My 008Rs however have much softer side walls and need 2.5-3 deg camber (at around 26psi) to work properly. From my information, it seams that much of the extra grip of the latter (2 secs a lap over the former) comes more from keeping the full tread face flat on the track rather than the small amount of extra tread face rubber they put down (which is incidentally a harder than on the 32s).

BTW, my tyre size is 225/60/R15, so somewhat wider, but a similar depth of side wall to yours I think. :-)
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Old 13 May 2008, 13:03 (Ref:2201103)   #8
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dtype 38. Agreed on the camber. When I ran A008r's I used 3.5 neg. On 48s I now use 2.5 neg, the 32s never really worked on my car and my fastest lap times were set on A008r's. Its a pity they stopped making them in 13 inch . I always scrub the outside edge regardless of tyre/camber combination and swap them around to get a bit more mileage.
I can't speak for the Michelin, although I do use their wets
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Old 13 May 2008, 13:23 (Ref:2201125)   #9
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Funny how the 008s were the better tyre,my best laps were always on them-even though they were 5yrs old but carefully stored,always quicker than the equivalent Dunlops.
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Old 15 May 2008, 14:31 (Ref:2203147)   #10
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Originally Posted by terence bower
...-even though they were 5yrs old but carefully stored,....
I obviously don't know how to store tyres properly.. my 008s were like lumps of concrete after 3yrs so I had to throw them away Can't get any more for love nor money.

Yup, agree with Gordon that even when I've set up as well as I can, the outside edge on the left still get scrubbed off. Now there's a point... would you put more camber on one side that the other for tracks that have nearly all bends in one direction? I certainly know at least one person who puts different pressure either side for that reason.
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Old 15 May 2008, 15:08 (Ref:2203170)   #11
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yeah its a shame they are no longer available,one of the best in my book.
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Old 15 May 2008, 18:38 (Ref:2203335)   #12
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I do run different camber and tyre pressure from side to side, but only by half a degree and 2psi. As most tracks are clockwise you will get more rights than left. No doubt some anorak will soon put me right
The worst place to keep tyres is on a trailer tyre rack even at a meeting on a sunny day !

Last edited by GORDON STREETER; 15 May 2008 at 18:41.
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Old 15 May 2008, 19:34 (Ref:2203374)   #13
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Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER
The worst place to keep tyres is on a trailer tyre rack even at a meeting on a sunny day !
Guilty your honour!
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Old 15 May 2008, 23:37 (Ref:2203571)   #14
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I'm lucky and have a racebox that helps to keep the sun off them.
A good tip is to keep tyres in bin liners, but you can buy posh tyre bags to show how much money you have.
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Old 16 May 2008, 06:56 (Ref:2203695)   #15
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Best to have them covered in something white/light coloured,waterproof and wind resistent[so you can leave the cover on]
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Old 20 May 2008, 02:03 (Ref:2206961)   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER
I do run different camber and tyre pressure from side to side, but only by half a degree and 2psi. As most tracks are clockwise you will get more rights than left. No doubt some anorak will soon put me right
Nothing wrong with that IMO
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