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Old 30 May 2017, 08:18 (Ref:3737318)   #76
Akrapovic
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Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Others are doing and have done the same thing. Why criticize only the Lexus team? There's guys racing on their squad that are not very good 'pros' and the driver ratings thing is far from being perfect. And the VLN series being a BOP game applies to all cars, not just one. And usually it's before the N24 they try to game the system, not after (when the RC F won late in the year).
I have criticized Acura for the exact same thing actually. No offense, but you're clearly so focused on the Lexus praise that you're happily ignoring anything else, despite actually quoting the bit that says NSX. Acura have no place running a works backed effort in GTD either. Whether or not it's first year or not shouldn't matter - it's a customer based class and meant to be no works backing, so neither Lexus or Acura have any place supporting works teams IMO. Same can be said for Alpine in LMP2. It's a private class, go away.

I can't really think of many examples of other teams and cars doing the same in GT3. SCG003 I suppose doesn't enter in many places, but that'll never get GT3 homologation so can't run everywhere. The Jaguar isn't going to get much running elsewhere, but even that's went in at Blancpain level. Aston Martin have been pretty poor with GT3s recently but again there's a customer in Blancpain, but then again they aren't works backed GT3 Astons anywhere. I can't think of many GT3 cars that have as troubled a start and such a slow ease in to competition at a lower level than the Lexus has.

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GT300 in Super GT is not an AM class. You admitted you don't know about that so maybe you should watch it sometime. The races are on NismoTV's youtube. The GT3 cars run the same BOP as they do in SRO.
I never said GT300 is an Am class. I said they entered in an Am class in America. I don't have much interest in SuperGT. It seems a great series for what it is, but the Japanese racing has never held my interest too much. Granted it's much more watchable with Sam Colins doing the commentary though. What Lexus do over there might well be impressive, but in Europe and America they're still off where they should be.

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It's still just a GT3, they can enter any series that runs those cars and it'll be fun. Blancpain is not the end all be all to GT3 racing. What makes Emil Frey or Farnbacher that much better than any other team running currently in GTOpen?
Everyone is running Ams, even in Pro class. Even our resident GT expert Bcarr6 has said it's easy wins for Lexus in that series and that even Pro Pro cars have an Am anyway. Forgive me if I can't get too excited about some easy wins in that series.

Blancpain is not the be all and end up, but apart from the N24 itself (rather than the BOP gaming of VLN races), it is by far and away the tip of the GT3 iceberg, and where you go to prove the car. Running around in series that you should win in, and win isn't going to do much. For all the time (and dear god there's been a lot of time spent on this car), money and effort to build factory backed teams, bring in top quality drivers and have them run by some of the best names in the business (ignoring 3GT, since Paul will be in jail soon and Lexus need to distance themselves from that team), it's such a massive waste and a let down to see them dodging proper competition in Europe and America for now.

Get that Lexus into Blancpain. Get rid of factory support in America and get the car in the hands of some better customers (it'll only improve once 3GT is out of the equation, and Lexus will be better off for it too). Then it'll be awesome and start making some real progress. I for one can't wait to see a Lexus fighting a Mercedes, a BMW and a Bentley for a podium at the Spa 24. That's what excites me - not easy wins in GT Open. I was so excited to see this car finally get to the level it's meant to be at, and then so disappointed to see it entered and represented in the series it's in.

As long as they don't go to the Michelin Le Mans Cup next.
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Old 30 May 2017, 09:28 (Ref:3737325)   #77
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I have criticized Acura for the exact same thing actually. No offense, but you're clearly so focused on the Lexus praise that you're happily ignoring anything else, despite actually quoting the bit that says NSX. Acura have no place running a works backed effort in GTD either. Whether or not it's first year or not shouldn't matter - it's a customer based class and meant to be no works backing, so neither Lexus or Acura have any place supporting works teams IMO. Same can be said for Alpine in LMP2. It's a private class, go away.



I can't really think of many examples of other teams and cars doing the same in GT3. SCG003 I suppose doesn't enter in many places, but that'll never get GT3 homologation so can't run everywhere. The Jaguar isn't going to get much running elsewhere, but even that's went in at Blancpain level. Aston Martin have been pretty poor with GT3s recently but again there's a customer in Blancpain, but then again they aren't works backed GT3 Astons anywhere. I can't think of many GT3 cars that have as troubled a start and such a slow ease in to competition at a lower level than the Lexus has.







I never said GT300 is an Am class. I said they entered in an Am class in America. I don't have much interest in SuperGT. It seems a great series for what it is, but the Japanese racing has never held my interest too much. Granted it's much more watchable with Sam Colins doing the commentary though. What Lexus do over there might well be impressive, but in Europe and America they're still off where they should be.







Everyone is running Ams, even in Pro class. Even our resident GT expert Bcarr6 has said it's easy wins for Lexus in that series and that even Pro Pro cars have an Am anyway. Forgive me if I can't get too excited about some easy wins in that series.



Blancpain is not the be all and end up, but apart from the N24 itself (rather than the BOP gaming of VLN races), it is by far and away the tip of the GT3 iceberg, and where you go to prove the car. Running around in series that you should win in, and win isn't going to do much. For all the time (and dear god there's been a lot of time spent on this car), money and effort to build factory backed teams, bring in top quality drivers and have them run by some of the best names in the business (ignoring 3GT, since Paul will be in jail soon and Lexus need to distance themselves from that team), it's such a massive waste and a let down to see them dodging proper competition in Europe and America for now.



Get that Lexus into Blancpain. Get rid of factory support in America and get the car in the hands of some better customers (it'll only improve once 3GT is out of the equation, and Lexus will be better off for it too). Then it'll be awesome and start making some real progress. I for one can't wait to see a Lexus fighting a Mercedes, a BMW and a Bentley for a podium at the Spa 24. That's what excites me - not easy wins in GT Open. I was so excited to see this car finally get to the level it's meant to be at, and then so disappointed to see it entered and represented in the series it's in.



As long as they don't go to the Michelin Le Mans Cup next.


You make some fair points.

I'd like them to stay in GT Open, it should be as a Pro Am effort though

To your point on Aston they have a new Vantage coming which will definitely be a GTE, maybe also a GT3. Hopefully we will see more from them if that happens?
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Old 30 May 2017, 09:43 (Ref:3737328)   #78
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I hope we see more Aston Yeah. All over the place preferably. For Lexus I want to see the car become like every other car - develop and sold to customers. So a proper backed effort in Blancpain and then customer cars in GT Open, IMSA, Michelin Le Mans Cup etc. I want to see that car properly competing. The longest most drawn out roll out of a GT3 car ever and it still feels mid roll out years later. Can't wait to see it run properly.
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Old 30 May 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3737487)   #79
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I just don't know what your deal is with the them doing what they are. I didn't ignore anything you said, btw I only asked why are you criticizing the Lexus squad in imsa as if they're alone. They may have full factory support but it's not a bonafide Lexus factory team. It's run by Gentilozzi with their backing being high, of course,probably because it's the first time the car is an actual gt3. The previous versions couldn't be ran because of no homologation. So it's their first year officially.

Didn't others do the same thing? I don't recall but did the Lamborghini or Bentley run in private hands in it's first year? I don't think it's fair to say they should be somewhere else besides GT Open. In addition to, sure. That's why I said there's two other series the car runs. I want them to be in the limelight series in Europe as much as anyone. But if they do GT Open I don't see it as beating up on the little guys or whatever.
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Old 31 May 2017, 06:32 (Ref:3737560)   #80
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But I've always criticised Acura and Lexus together regarding IMSA. I also moan about Alpine in LMP2 and Aston Martin running works efforts (with Pedro bloody Lamy too) in GTE-Am, as I believe those go against the spirit of what the class is all about. I just call it like I see it.

I don't know about Lambo, I'd have to look that up, but Bentley did not run like this no. In the first year of the Continental GT3 it ran in the top class in Blancpain under M-Sport, a few customer teams in Asia (can't remember who, I never get time to watch the Asian series) and Dyson in PWC for its first year. Was also tested by Abt and HTP, who'd both eventually run the cars (in Blancpain and ADAC GT/VLN). The first year of Bentley was available to customers, and ran in the top GT3 series in the US and Europe.

I just see them running GT Open as a bit of a half hearted look at things tbh. And I'd say the same thing about any new GT3 car (especially if it had such a long and troubled development as this one) that appeared in the way the Lexus has done. I'm all for seeing that car race and it feels like a waste in GT Open. Lets see it get a proper challenge.
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Old 31 May 2017, 19:25 (Ref:3737798)   #81
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You see it as a waste, but I don't think that. I've always liked GT Open, more so in the past when they had GTE's running as well. If Lexus wants to run there or GT Open invited them, it only helps the series become more prominent. I'm tired of Blancpain being the only series where the 'big guys' should run in Europe. And your example of what Bentley was doing in their first year is somewhat comparable to what Lexus are now doing. Two different teams in Europe, two different teams in Japan and one team in the U.S.

You didn't answer my question about what makes or if Emil Frey/Farnbacher (are) better than other teams racing in GT Open. It's not a trick question, I'm curious if that's the case.
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Old 31 May 2017, 19:45 (Ref:3737805)   #82
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You see it as a waste, but I don't think that. I've always liked GT Open, more so in the past when they had GTE's running as well. If Lexus wants to run there or GT Open invited them, it only helps the series become more prominent. I'm tired of Blancpain being the only series where the 'big guys' should run in Europe. And your example of what Bentley was doing in their first year is somewhat comparable to what Lexus are now doing. Two different teams in Europe, two different teams in Japan and one team in the U.S.

You didn't answer my question about what makes or if Emil Frey/Farnbacher (are) better than other teams racing in GT Open. It's not a trick question, I'm curious if that's the case.
I thought I covered that? They're both being worked backed in a series which is effectively an Am focused series, despite the inclusion of the Pro Pro class. Farnbachers really need no introduction on why they're considered so good - that's like asking why Pratt and Miller are considered so good. Emil Frey, again, is worked backed in a series that IMO is below that standard. I'm not saying GT Open is a bad series, and certainly not saying it isn't fun. But if you're a manufacturer and supporting teams with reputation, history, knowledge and experience of the level of the Farnbachers, then IMO you're shooting pretty low going for GT Open.

Bentley was selling cars to Dyson as a customer, not a works backed effort, but was running cars in the top available series in the US that it could fight for overall wins in, and the top series in Europe. You could argue that Lexus is in the top series in the US (some will disagree, but I do think IMSA is better than PWC now), but it is running a works team in an Am class again. It is certainly in the top class in Asia. But it is not the top series in Europe by any stretch of the imagination. I see the comparison you're trying to draw, but I disagrees. Bentleys first ever GT3 car took less time to develop than the Lexus, and entered at a higher level, and with the appropriate level of factory involvement. I haven't had time to look up the Lambo effort, but I don't know much about the teams relationship with the factory anyway - and that gets more complicated with the fact that half of that car is an Audi.

If you're tired of Blancpain being the top series and want others to run elsewhere, that's fine. I understand that, especially with how flakey SRO is, and a lot of people aren't a fan or Rattel which is understandable. But that doesn't change the fact that Blancpain, like it or not, is a significantly higher standard than anything else in Europe at the moment, and a challenge that Lexus is still missing out on, years after beginning development of the GT3 car.

So yeah, I do see it as a waste. I see it as a waste that it took so damn long to develop it, and then we don't get a true representation of its speed because it's entered in a series that's a lower standard, and a class that it shouldn't be involved in. I can't wait to see some factory Lexus/Lexuses/Lexii in the wild, in the top series, with the top teams and the top drivers, and without Dodgy Paul putting a black mark on things. That's what I'm after and looking forward to.
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Old 1 Jun 2017, 20:47 (Ref:3738013)   #83
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- AB Sport Auto - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 -Joffrey da Narda / Harry Teneketzian

For Estoril in the Pro Am class
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Old 1 Jun 2017, 22:44 (Ref:3738025)   #84
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I thought I covered that? They're both being worked backed in a series which is effectively an Am focused series, despite the inclusion of the Pro Pro class. Farnbachers really need no introduction on why they're considered so good - that's like asking why Pratt and Miller are considered so good. Emil Frey, again, is worked backed in a series that IMO is below that standard. I'm not saying GT Open is a bad series, and certainly not saying it isn't fun. But if you're a manufacturer and supporting teams with reputation, history, knowledge and experience of the level of the Farnbachers, then IMO you're shooting pretty low going for GT Open.

Bentley was selling cars to Dyson as a customer, not a works backed effort, but was running cars in the top available series in the US that it could fight for overall wins in, and the top series in Europe. You could argue that Lexus is in the top series in the US (some will disagree, but I do think IMSA is better than PWC now), but it is running a works team in an Am class again. It is certainly in the top class in Asia. But it is not the top series in Europe by any stretch of the imagination. I see the comparison you're trying to draw, but I disagrees. Bentleys first ever GT3 car took less time to develop than the Lexus, and entered at a higher level, and with the appropriate level of factory involvement. I haven't had time to look up the Lambo effort, but I don't know much about the teams relationship with the factory anyway - and that gets more complicated with the fact that half of that car is an Audi.

If you're tired of Blancpain being the top series and want others to run elsewhere, that's fine. I understand that, especially with how flakey SRO is, and a lot of people aren't a fan or Rattel which is understandable. But that doesn't change the fact that Blancpain, like it or not, is a significantly higher standard than anything else in Europe at the moment, and a challenge that Lexus is still missing out on, years after beginning development of the GT3 car.

So yeah, I do see it as a waste. I see it as a waste that it took so damn long to develop it, and then we don't get a true representation of its speed because it's entered in a series that's a lower standard, and a class that it shouldn't be involved in. I can't wait to see some factory Lexus/Lexuses/Lexii in the wild, in the top series, with the top teams and the top drivers, and without Dodgy Paul putting a black mark on things. That's what I'm after and looking forward to.
Last thing I'll say on this...

Lexus didn't have homologation for the RC F GT3 until this year. That's not good. It doesn't matter who's fault it was, doesn't matter if they should have done better from the get go. So, can you race in Blancpain without being homologated, like the Jaguar? I'm not sure if the homologation by the FIA is even done on this year's car. I tried pointing this out before, but I think it needs to be said again; Lexus/Toyota has never done a GT3, and this RC F is the first one. Bentley and Lamborghini had/have the VAG to fall back on for help. The Huracan is made/developed by Dallara and like you said, is basically an Audi R8. I like that they went to Blancpain first, but not everyone has to follow. At least there's 6 cars racing on 3 continents and I think we'll see if they have what it takes to go against the best later this year. I want to see the NSX there as well.
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Old 2 Jun 2017, 17:52 (Ref:3738180)   #85
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Konrad Motorsport - Lamborghini Huracan - Hendrik Still/Paul Scheuschner
Lechner Racing - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Mario Plachutta/Thomas Jäger
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Old 2 Jun 2017, 19:53 (Ref:3738217)   #86
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Jager is the Senior, will be a good entry, and great to see Konrad coming in, itll be their first time in the last few years if I remember correctly. Hendrik still is fairly solid
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Old 6 Jun 2017, 19:54 (Ref:3739093)   #87
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GT OPEN - PAUL RICARD ENTRY LIST


PRO CLASS

No.1 - Imperiale Racing - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Thomas Biagi / Giovanni Venturini

No.007 - Solaris Motorsport - Aston Martin Vantage GT3 - Francesco Sini / Mauro Calamia

No.11 - Raton Racing - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Edoardo Liberati / Kang Ling

No.23 - Imperiale Racing - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Vito Postiglione / Andrea Fontana

No.32 - Antonelli Motorsport - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Mikael Grenier / Kikko Galbiati

No.51 - RACE BMW Team Teo Martin - BMW M6 GT3 - Lourenco Beirao da Veiga / Tiago Monteiro

No.54 - Emil Frey Lexus Racing - Lexus RC F GT3 - Alberta Costa / Phillipp Frommenwiler

No.55 - Farnbacher Racing - Lexus RC F GT3 - Dominik Farnbacher / Mario Farnbacher

No.65 - RACE BMW Team Teo Martin - BMW M6 GT3 - Victor Bouveng / Fran Rueda

No.488 - Spirit of Race - Ferrari 488 GT3 - Miguel Ramos / Mikkel Mac Jensen


PRO AM CLASS

No.5 - SF Racing - Ferrari 488 GT3 - Fu Songyang / Andrea Caldarelli

No.8 - AF Corse - Ferrari 488 GT3 - Piergiuseppe Perazzini / Marco Cioci

No.10 - Jordan Racing - Bentley Continetal GT3 - Jordan Witt / Michael Meadows

No.16 - Drivex School - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Marcelo Hahn / Alan Hellmeister

No.19 - Lechner Racing - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Mario Plachutta / Thomas Jäger

No.20 - SPS Automotive - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Valentin Pierburg / Tom Onslow-Cole

No.21 - Konrad Racing - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Hendrik Still / Paul Scheuschner

No.22 - Balfe Motorsport - McLaren 650s GT3 - Shaun Balfe / Rob Bell

No.24 - Garage 59 - McLaren 650s GT3 - Michael Benham / Duncan Tappy

No.25 - FF Corse / Ferrari 488 GT3 - Ivor Dunbar / Johnny Mowlem

No.46 - - AB Sport Auto - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 -Joffrey da Narda / Harry Teneketzian

No.88 - Garage 59 - McLaren 650s GT3 - Alexander West / Come Ledogar

No.555 - FFF Racing Team by ACM - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Hiroshi Hamaguichi / Vitantonio Liuzzi


AM CLASS

No.12 - Sports & You - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Marcio Basso / Fulvio Figueiredo

No.32 - Antonelli Motorsport - Lamborghini Huracan GT3 - Davide Rosa / TBC

No.48 - Kaspersky Motorsport - Ferrari 488 GT3 - Alex Moiseev / Davide Rizzo

No.74 - MS Racing - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Alexander Hrachowina / Martin Konrad

No.99 - Sports & You - Mercedes AMG GT3 - Antonio Coimbra / Luis Silva
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Old 6 Jun 2017, 19:56 (Ref:3739095)   #88
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A pretty solid 28 entries for the Paul Ricard round this weekend
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