Susie Stoddard

[Russfeld]

Smooth makes you fast in every series, why wasnt she fast enough in Renaults?

[SpawnyWhippet]

I think that although SS is a very talented driver who would run rings around me, she would never have got this far if she was male. I am sure that her sponsorship and BRDC nomination were based more on gender than talent, whereas her male competitors are judged solely on performance. If this isn't true, then how come she is beaten by guys who weren't nominated for the BRDC prize or have no sponsors?

[skyblue]

I interviewed Susie in depth twice, once when whe was starting out on Ford's and once last year. She's absolutely NOT funded by family money nor has been since karts. I remember in fact that Wayne Douglas' team had to waive their fee for her to run at Brands on the day I interviewed her.

I have found that because she (and Sarah and Katherine and Danica) begin late and ARE women, it takes longer for them to mature and become really genuinely quick, but that does not mean they don't deserve their places on the grid. So for Susie Renault is a learning curve, so what? That's what it's supposed to be.

Other drivers were faster than Susie in Renault, but very few of them will progress. Many expect that because they were fast in their small world that drives will be offered to them and they will be PAID to race after winning Renault. Dream On!

Teams up the ladder are looking for more than that in drivers, and hard working publicity-aware, sponsor-aware drivers will be more keenly sought than the others.

As regards their publicity, in each case above ( I've spoken with them all ) the publications I freelance for were contacted by the drivers themselves or by their helpers, they drive their own publicity and work extremely hard to get it. They do not have family money so they work hard to get sponsors, then they carry out their obligation to gain exposure for those sponsors instead of taking the money and running, which is what a lot of guys do, ruining the marketplace.

Because of all this hard work, they don't have to give up....ever. They can cobble a few grand for a race anytime, so they stay in the frame until someone backs them properly; Like Bobby Rahal and Danica. These people like those who don't give up.

By that time they have become really quick drivers, who don't crash cars, and to whom PR and sponsorship is just second nature. THAT'S what makes team's wheels go round.

You're just going to have to get used to the idea that success comes to those that try hardest and to the idea that you ARE going to see at least Danica, Sarah and Susie all the way to the top in one form or another........and so it should be because hard work and committment deserves success.

Sorry if this is a bit long.......almost there.

"She wouldn't have got this far is she were male" crops up regularly. That's probably true, but for different reasons than you might think. It's because most male drivers don't work hard enough at it, and think what they do in the car is the be-all and end-all. It's a popular misconception, and though I really hate the fact, it's money that fuels racing, not sporting mores.

I'm ashamed as a male petrol head of some of the comments here, it's all a bit Bernard Manning and so old-fashioned. So from another era.

Please guys, start giving these girls their credit, they've overcome huge hurdles and obstacles and are out there racing giving 120% of their ability in all aspects of the sport, they're to be admired, cherished and supported.

[SpawnyWhippet]

I couldn't agree with you more, skyblue. She has worked extremely hard to get where she has got, and I admire her for it. I would love to see more women, ethnic minorities etc in motorsport as its been dominated far too long by blazers and old boys network. The point I was making is that other faster guys going after the same sponsorship would be less likely to get it due to their gender, which I disagree with.

[skyblue]

Good point Andy, but I don't believe it to be true. As part of a story I once spoke with Gillette's sponsorship manager, the brand manager of L'Oreal and the PR company representing Wella in the Toyota F1 deal. I asked if they would support a woman,

Each said no, because there was no successful precedent. Business is business.

L'Oreal said they could and do have Jennifer Aniston if they want, so why an unknown woman racer? Which would be more influential? Also it was a female decision in L'Oreal and they chose Michael Schumacher because they didn't think women could race!!

Wella's PR said that their sponsorship with Toyota was 'relationship based' and not to do with marketing to men or women or supporting either gender.

Based on the sponsorship seeking workload that some of these girls put in, I believe they are extremely unsuccessful compared to men. 1 in 200 leads to a meeting and 1 in 25 meetings leads to a deal is about the average I've been told.

[helenh]

OH DEAR.... This applies to a lot of you....

WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN??!

I am sorry to have to say this but how many of you actually have the b*lls, let alone the talent and dedication to get off your computer chairs and find the money to go racing, and be compatitive?

EXACTLY....

Its not easy and I admire anyone who has the goal - like Susie to go to F1. You have to have a plan and she works damn hard at it.

Yes, she gets more PR - and you could say thats unfair, but how many other girls have the get up and go to do this? No very many....

What have most of you loosers done with your life???... At least she has put her heart and soul into it and tried.

She would never slag anyone off like you slate her - how and why does she deserve it exactly?

Did she lie about her ancle - or more than likely was she being messed around by her sponsors?

You know women like Susie, Katherine Legge and Danica Patrick deserve a break. It seems when they're on the up you all support them... But you're very quick to knock them when they're down. They have done more with their lives than most of you put together.....

[Gaz]

Ok Miss Stoddart! We all bow down to your greatness! ..... NOT!

[Suze]

Helen,

1. Firstly, there are many talented people (male and female) who are out there trying to find sponsorship and the money to compete, but can't get it for lots of reasons - it's not that they're too lazy. And you'll find quite a few people on the forum are in that situation.

2. I agree, it's right to admire someone who has a goal, and I'll give Susie that.

3. She shouldn't have lied about her ankle - I believe she should have played it straight and said she didn't have the backing from her sponsors. The result of her doing so causes more people to "slag her off" as you put it, partly for not being honest, not just their opinions on her driving ability.

4. Coming on here and calling everyone "losers" really won't endear yourself to many people. If you want to discuss Susie or anyone else for the matter, that's fine, but putting people's backs up before you even start probably isn't the best way to go about things!

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Gaz

Ok Miss Stoddart! We all bow down to your greatness! ..... NOT!

Jeez Gaz, you really know how to about things don't you?! Ever heard of the words "constructive" and "comments" put together to make a little phrase?

[Suze]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53918

Will Susie Stoddart be in F1 in 2006?

Results were:

Yes 12.5%
No 75.0%
She needs to find sponsorship first 12.5%

48 votes altogether.

[Gaz]

Originally Posted by Suze

Jeez Gaz, you really know how to about things don't you?! Ever heard of the words "constructive" and "comments" put together to make a little phrase?

I couldn't be bothered responding constructively to such drivel! I thank you for taking the time to do it Suze!

[Suze]

men - lazy b******s! I guess though it kindof shows that I can't be bothered to get up to do the washing if I do bother to respond...ah well! c'est la vie!

[helenh]

Originally Posted by Suze

Helen,

1. Firstly, there are many talented people (male and female) who are out there trying to find sponsorship and the money to compete, but can't get it for lots of reasons - it's not that they're too lazy. And you'll find quite a few people on the forum are in that situation.

2. I agree, it's right to admire someone who has a goal, and I'll give Susie that.

3. She shouldn't have lied about her ankle - I believe she should have played it straight and said she didn't have the backing from her sponsors. The result of her doing so causes more people to "slag her off" as you put it, partly for not being honest, not just their opinions on her driving ability.

4. Coming on here and calling everyone "losers" really won't endear yourself to many people. If you want to discuss Susie or anyone else for the matter, that's fine, but putting people's backs up before you even start probably isn't the best way to go about things!

I really wasn't interested on endering myself to anybody, or discussing Susie or anyone else. I just wanted to get my point across that most people on this forum are small minded twits who need to get off their butts and compete before they are entitled to their narrow oppinions!

[Suze]

FYI quite a lot of the people on the forum do compete, or are involved in motorsport in other ways, so I think you still need to address that before going back to the insulting tactic....

And if you're "not interested" in discussing Susie, why are you posting about her?! Just to "slag" people off? (Which seems to be what you were complaining about, but are now doing....)

[helenh]

Good point well put....
I appologise for the slagging.

It just frutrates the hell out of me that people don't see the bigger picture.

As for there being some drivers on this forum.... maybe some clubby racers but no Schueys or Montoya's!!

[Kicking-back]

When a driver takes part in motorsport, they expect that being criticised by the punters is part of the deal.

Whether people on this forum have raced themselves is largely irrelevant.

[helenh]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

When a driver takes part in motorsport, they expect that being criticised by the punters is part of the deal.

Whether people on this forum have raced themselves is largely irrelevant.

Thats just not true... A driver does not expect to be criticed by people who know less than them about racing

What qualifies us to judge them?

see.... stupid comment

[Suze]

No worries Helen. I agree it can be frustrating when people don't see the bigger picture, but at the end of the day that's life and that's the way with a lot of things in life too.

KB - my point was that Helen said people need to "get up and compete" before they post their "narrow minded opinions" - however if some of the people do compete, then they can post their "narrow minded opinions," no? (So technically I can't post my opinion if it is narrow minded, but hey!).

[Suze]

Originally Posted by helenh

Thats just not true... A driver does not expect to be criticed by people who know less than them about racing

What qualifies us to judge them?

see.... stupid comment

Disagree - a driver *does* expect to be criticised by people knowing less than them. It's the way motorsport works. Nothing qualifies me to judge them, but I do, fact. But then again, what qualifies me to judge anyone, for example somebody walking down the street? Nothing, but I do. However, if it's something I *know* about or have knowledge in, fair enough as I am in a better situation to do so but people always always judge each other in so many different senses whether they're "qualified" to or not.

[helenh]

Originally Posted by Suze

No worries Helen. I agree it can be frustrating when people don't see the bigger picture, but at the end of the day that's life and that's the way with a lot of things in life too.

KB - my point was that Helen said people need to "get up and compete" before they post their "narrow minded opinions" - however if some of the people do compete, then they can post their "narrow minded opinions," no? (So technically I can't post my opinion if it is narrow minded, but hey!).

somink like that! Why are you on this forum... you have far too many braincells....

[helenh]

Originally Posted by Suze

Disagree - a driver *does* expect to be criticised by people knowing less than them. It's the way motorsport works. Nothing qualifies me to judge them, but I do, fact. But then again, what qualifies me to judge anyone, for example somebody walking down the street? Nothing, but I do. However, if it's something I *know* about or have knowledge in, fair enough as I am in a better situation to do so but people always always judge each other in so many different senses whether they're "qualified" to or not.

However.... on the braincell theory I hadn't read your last offering...

No drivers expect to be criticised by people who really have little knowledge (and i'm sorry but unless you confess to be Ron Dennis or at least some kinda professional in the sport you know very little)

Would I critise you for your work - no even though I would think I would know something about it - would you expect me to critise you - NO!

[Suze]

Guess you take the braincell thing back then!

I criticise drivers. End of. Most people watching racing do. Why? Because although I'm no Ron Dennis / professional in the sport I do - fact! It gets to the point where you've watched enough to be able to criticise - you can tell the difference between driver error and mechanical contribution, so then (imo) you're entitled to criticise.

You could criticise me in my work if you wanted to. Would I take it on board? Not unless you knew what you were talking about. Personally I listen and respond to criticism that's both constuctive and from someone who knows their stuff - it's the same with drivers - they'll respond differently to criticism from (say) team boss, Damon Hill, team mate etc than they will to me for example. And that's the way it works! They know before they start out they'll be criticised, whether they're competing in the highest level or at club level.

[flexible-flyer]

susie has a goal that she wants to acheive, just like everybody else she is racing against. but just because she wants to go racing doesnt mean to say shes a better person than me. im not a loser. at 20 years old i would be lying if i said i dont wanna be a racing driver but so? im still happy the way my life has panned out. im slating susie as a racing driver who thinks too highly of herself like i would slate anyone in any walk of life who did the same. its very arrogant of her, and i do mean her, PR or no, most of this comes from her own mouth. thats why she deserves critisism.

i think she is slagging off other people in a very big way simply by touting herself as f1 material. again, shes done sweet FA elsewhere and she thinks she deserves to take one of those big 20 seats in f1. f1 is supposed to be about the best. i dont think f1 has ever been free of lesser drivers but letting susie stoddart into f1 ahead of so many other people who have actualy proven their worth on the track and not on the media, aint the way to start.

and stop making this an issue about female drivers. once again, sexism is brought up. i dont really rate legge that highly but she sure as hell doesnt have the media frenzy that susie brings. yes she has a goal of f1 but she realises she needs to work hard about it. she is now doing a respectable job over in america. without the hype she has won a race already whereas WITH the hype, stoddart hasnt done jack. thats why you never hear me going on these rants about kathy legge.

as for danica, another female racing driver who i have no gripes about, well for one she gets 100 times more media coverage than susie stoddart. why? well because she is proving herself to be pretty quick in what is the secondary single seater series in the world. she was leading the indy 500 a few laps before the flag despite spinning, having a nose change and a penalty. id say to come back from that to almost win is pretty impressive. that aswell as her obvious talent is worth about half of what she is getting in terms of coverage. the other half is down to her gender, but at least shes gets results on the board. you see danica being interviewed and she has her feet firmly on the ground. susie on the other hand is bigging herself up to the extent that is just untrue. she hasnt proven a thing to me whilst drivers who beat her week in week out get nothing at all.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by helenh

However.... on the braincell theory I hadn't read your last offering...

No drivers expect to be criticised by people who really have little knowledge (and i'm sorry but unless you confess to be Ron Dennis or at least some kinda professional in the sport you know very little)

Would I critise you for your work - no even though I would think I would know something about it - would you expect me to critise you - NO!

....and just what is the high ground that you occupy, Helen, that entitles you to make the judgements that you have?

Tell you what, let's 'judge' Susie,as a driver, on her results, regardless of gender. What would your assessment be?

Mine, after many years in the sport as sponsor, entrant, engineer would be 'average clubbie'.

[helenh]

Judging Susie on results... now thats more like it. EVERYONE is entitled to do that because they are facts in black and white that stand true.

Agreed, she has been given plenty of opportunities and hasn't delivered. She is average pro - not clubby though, who'd you engineeer Senna?!? (Also if you were sponsor, engineer AND entrant it means YOU are definately club material - pro teams NEVER - not one - have a person doing all 3) Not that I am saying there is any harm in being club material, its fine. You just have an over inflated opinion of club levels of talent.

I just think she should be given credit for working so f-ing hard at it, in the face of adversity. Don't judge her personally, rate her proffesionally.