Jensen Button's return to Williams

[Valve Bounce]

British driver Jenson Button has been told that he could return to his former team Williams for the 2003 season.

However, this is conditional on his performance this year being better than current Williams drivers Ralf AND JPM this year. That's what Frank Williams says.
The chances of Jenson Button performing better than both Ralf and JPM this year when he is driving a Renault would be akin to Steven Bradbury winning a Gold medal in the Winter Olympics, although, he could do a Bradbury as Roy and HG puts it.
I don't know what Frank Williams is playing at, but this is about the dumbest promise I have ever heard anyone make.
On the other hand, if Jenson does drive better than both Ralf and JPM this year, I am sure that Renault will offer him a contract worth zillions of Euros.

[Jukebox]

JPM's contract will end this year while Ralf's until 2004, who knows Frank William will replace JPM with Button. But then it'll be the biggest mistake he'll ever make.

Who knows maybe he can't afford to have two star drivers at one time. I'm sure JPM & Ralf must have cost him a fortune based on their performance last year.

[Valve Bounce]

Actually "no", JPM is only being paid 1.5 million dollars this year. Next year will be quite different.

[Jukebox]

Which makes more sense, lets say JPM shows the same effort and produce the same result or better this year...he's entitled to stipulate for higher wage for the 2003 season after his existing contract expires.

By the way, do you know how much Ferrari is paying TGF?. I've read once he's being paid double the amount of the next highest paid driver in the market.

[Stephen Green]

Interesting subject.

Frank Williams is almost certainly playing one against the other here in order to get the salary bill down a little. Don't forget though he has never shied away from losing his top drivers in the past. Whitness Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill and Alain Prost leaving the team as world champions.

You also have to think about what 'driving better' really means. Does it mean beating JPM and/or Ralph or merely showing more committment?

Time will tell, but my money is on Ralph and Montoya both being at Williams for next year. If anyone's contract is under threat of the two, I would say it is Ralph's (sorry Steph)

[f1manoz]

Button has no chance of returning to Williams next year unless he carries away the WDC, or something very close to it after his shocking performances last year.

With Ralf and JPM both being potential WDC contenders this year, Sir FW would have to be nuts to get rid of either of them.

[Stephen Green]

Never say never is what I say!

What Frank has said is that he is constantly watching Jenson and that he believes Jenson has a natural ability to drive a racing car. I tend to agree that he won't go back to Williams next year, but it's a brave man who says never!

[Coach44]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Actually "no", JPM is only being paid 1.5 million dollars this year. Next year will be quite different.

Based on F1 Mag article: Montoya is believed to have started on a salary of $3.5 million last year, $4.8 million this year, with just under $7 million next year...

But he (his new manager Julian Jakobi) is trying to get the same as Ralph $12 million a year.

All this could means that one of the two will have to go next year, as I doubt that FW wants two drivers in the $12 million plus salary. If so, IMO, Button should replace Ralph

[Mr V]

i don't see that jenson has to get more points than the williams drivers this season to have a chance of returning to the williams team next season!

if JPM outscores RAFE by considerable margin (this is only an example btw!) this season on points, poles fastest laps etc (or visa versa for all those RAFE fans) and jenson ups his games this season (as i expect he will) and gets close or even surpasses his highly rated team mate, but doesn't quite match the points total of the lower williams driver, then do people honestly think that sir frank is going to think....well jenson did get close in a lesser car, but he didn't quite match my second points scoring driver, even though he's on alot more money, so i won't hire him.

don't think so.

[Stephen Green]

Well said Mr V. Exactly the point I was trying to make but not so eloquently as you have put it!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Well said Mr V. Exactly the point I was trying to make but not so eloquently as you have put it!

thank you stephen, i was abit concerned that people reading this will get as confused as i was writing it!

i really think that jenson is going to shut a few people up this year, and wouldn't at all be surprised to see him back under sir franks wing in 2003.

[Stephen Green]

Well as you know, I am a Jenson fan having watched him in F3 before F1. You don't come into a team like Williams unless you have some talent, especially not from F3!

Take care,

Stephen.

[neilap]

I think that this was a warning to RS. Sir Frank, I feel, does not want to come out and say it so bluntly. Personally, I feel JPM will have to be a complete flop to be taken from his seat in Williams. RS on the other hand nurses his car a bit too much when in the heat of battle. He has a lot to prove. I feel he is under more pressure than DC. Those who insist that JPM is not the real deal, just don't like him. I don't think they feel his record is a fluke. I know CART and F1 are different but a good driver is a good driver. I think he is a great driver. Just like BAR seems to want to keep JV, I feel that Williams will want JPM. They know that if the battle is close he will not be nursing the car to a third place finish. He will be going for the win. That is why he was CART champ. Many drivers could learn from him. RS says he takes too many risks, but how else does one put a pass on MS. MS will lay down for no one.
If Button qualifies close to JT and beats him at the end of the year I feel RS will be gone, long, long, gone. No soup for you! Gone!

[Stephen Green]

Neil,

I think you hit the nail right on the head as they say. Sir frank loves a racer, hence the signings like JV, Mansell, Zanardi and JPM. You are also right when you say that Ralph really hasn't 'put it on the line' in the same way that Montoya does. Frank will have noticed that and he doesn't give a damn what the sponsors say either. He will get rid of Ralph at the first chance if he thinks he can get someone better.

I'm not necessarily saying that Jenson is better, but he won't lose any sleep about firing Ralph if he doesn't perform.

I guess it's welcome to the real world ralph, that's what happens in all walks of life!

[Mr V]

i think that there is only 1 thing that sir frank and patrick like more than a racer, and thats a cheaper racer! that is why they wouldn't want to part with the sort of wages that ferrari pay tgf!

[Total-F1]

I've said all along that I reckon Ralfie-boy is going to get the boot from Williams at the end of 2003.

[Speedworx]

I will stick to my prediction that JM will go to Ferrari in 2003 and Button will return to Williams.

[Ralf's Girl]

If Button has to outperform both Ralf and JPM this season in order to return to Williams, he doesn't stand a chance. And a few of you seem very confident that Ralf will be on his way out at the end of this year, but that would cost Williams a fortune. And for what? A relatively unproven driver whose chances of winning anything this year are very slim, and who will most likely be outperformed by his team-mate.

Maybe it's just my bias towards Ralf speaking here, but I would pick any race winner over Jenson Button.

[Total-F1]

Jenson is still being paid a salary by Williams anyway.

Ralf Schumacher isn't much liked by the team - especially not the the team principals - his only saving grace is the fact that the German engine makers BMW are involved.

Juan Pablo and Jense, however, are the Williams blue-eyed boys at the moment...

[neilap]

From my limited time watching F1 I see that contracts mean very little. So Williams might be willing to trade baby boy. Who knows there might be a performance clause. I have on question. Who would really want Ralph? He has a tendency to not look very good against his teammates. I am biased too. I think he is overrated. I bet if GF was in the same car there would be hell to pay!

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by neilap
From my limited time watching F1 I see that contracts mean very little. So Williams might be willing to trade baby boy. Who knows there might be a performance clause. I have on question. Who would really want Ralph? He has a tendency to not look very good against his teammates. I am biased too. I think he is overrated. I bet if GF was in the same car there would be hell to pay!

At the beginning of last year, I would have gathered my forces here, and there were many fans of Ralf then, and stomped all over you. However, since then, Ralf has shot off his mouth against his team mate, and he has lost me completely. (No loss, some would cheerfully sneer). However, there are some things that still stand out - Ralf is a good driver, he can win races, and he has a long term contract at Williams. I don't think Frank will be as disdainful with contracts as Tom Walkinshaw.
The sticking point in this whole business of Jenson going back to Williams is JPM - and Frank would do everything in his power to stop JPM from going over to Ferrari next year, as that could cost Frank the double championship then.
So, my intent in posting this thread is that Frank, in his supreme wisdom, is making empty promises early on, not to spur Jenson on, but to spur on his own chargers.
And for those who suspect I despise Frank Williams, they would be right.

[Stephen Green]

Steph,

What we are saying is that Ralph is the weaker of the two drivers currently at Williams. Jenson does have a contract with Williams but that doesn't mean he will be back either. The point being made here is that Frank Williams is putting the pressure on both drivers to perform, but mainly on Ralph. It is also true that if he feels he can get a driver that is as good as Ralph, if not better, for less money, he will not hesitate to do so.

This isn't an attack on Ralph as such, more pointing out the various ways in which Frank Williams moves. Hence my remarks about Mansell, Prost and Hill in the earlier thread!

[Speedworx]

I did once like Ralf, but he has been out performed by both Button in 2000 and Montoya in 2001. Williams would do right in letting him go.

[Raven]

I think Williams will be paying closer attention to Pizzonia.

[senna12]

Frank is in the enviable position of having 5 good drivers under contract, including Pizzonia and Gene. This allows him to play the off one against the other, performance wise, and get the best out of them by threat of replacement.

Unfortunately for Ralf, he makes an awful lot of money, probably almost as much as the other 4 combined. Frank is going to expect value for money from RG. I don't think he would hesitate to replace him. I wonder what level of performance he is expecting, and what will be enough for Ralf to keep his job.

Raven is right, in that I think Pizzonia is the sleeper in this deal. Could be another Massa....