Murph should thank Skaife?

[Zinger]

He was still incredibly quick in the SEGA car untill a large crash at the Creek that set the team right back.

[Dave HRT Moy]

Originally posted by aj_308
i can think of more times than i can mark. Maybe you should go back and watch a few tapes.

Simple race stats here champ.

Skaife had more podiums and scored more points whilst he and Lowndes were teammates for 3 seasons at HRT.

Same team, same cars and Skaife did better.

Go back and check the stats, be my guest.

You see, I base what I say on fact, not my romantic dream of what didn't really happen...

[Rulekeeeper]

I think Skaifey was just asking Spud if he could buy the car back

[moffman]

Originally posted by Dave HRT Moy
Simple race stats here champ.

Skaife had more podiums and scored more points whilst he and Lowndes were teammates for 3 seasons at HRT.

Same team, same cars and Skaife did better.

Go back and check the stats, be my guest.

You see, I base what I say on fact, not my romantic dream of what didn't really happen...

I seem to remember Lowndes winning 2 titles & Skaife 1...... Are you going to tell everyone that Skaife didn't get preferential treatment in their last year together?(Tell the truth now)

[GTRMagic]

Well it would have been Lowndes 2 Skaife 2 has Mr Lowndes wanted to stick around

[Dave HRT Moy]

Originally posted by moffman
I seem to remember Lowndes winning 2 titles & Skaife 1...... Are you going to tell everyone that Skaife didn't get preferential treatment in their last year together?(Tell the truth now)

The points structure was changed in 1999, Skaife had more wins, but Lowndes won it on overall higher placings.

Mate, I don't know who got what in 2000. All I know is what I see in the stats and that shows that Skaife scored more podiums and points than Lowndes in their time together.

Skaife joined the team at Sandown in 97'. Never been in the car before and sat it on pole, soundly out qualified Lowndes (who'd won the touring car championship in almost an identical car the year before). Skaife did the same again at Bathurst that year.

He did the development work on the VT and made the HRT version almost unbeatable. Lowndes quite often would just copy Skaife's set ups and run with that.

Skaife joined the team in 97' just at the time when Lowndes was coming back from Europe.

Craig was still the golden boy at HRT at the time and if he lost favour, it was his own doing.

[Hobo high]

Originally posted by FatBoy
Funny enough Skaife was one of the first to approach Murph after the race, shake hands and congratulate him...
Considering how ****ed off he would have been after the door episode (not pointing fingers here btw) i thought it showed plenty of class...

Cheers,
Paul...

MAYBE the reference to murphy being a w@nker reported in the sun hearld newspaper on monday had something to do with that - just maybe

[Hobo high]

Originally posted by Dave HRT Moy
The points structure was changed in 1999, Skaife had more wins, but Lowndes won it on overall higher placings.

Mate, I don't know who got what in 2000. All I know is what I see in the stats and that shows that Skaife scored more podiums and points than Lowndes in their time together.

Skaife joined the team at Sandown in 97'. Never been in the car before and sat it on pole, soundly out qualified Lowndes (who'd won the touring car championship in almost an identical car the year before). Skaife did the same again at Bathurst that year.

He did the development work on the VT and made the HRT version almost unbeatable. Lowndes quite often would just copy Skaife's set ups and run with that.

Skaife joined the team in 97' just at the time when Lowndes was coming back from Europe.

Craig was still the golden boy at HRT at the time and if he lost favour, it was his own doing.

I think most people know the true story , so do you dave !Your unrealistic dream seqeunce continues on another motorsport forum

[Wizzby]

There's a book out at the moment called The Holden Racing Team... there was some interesting stuff in it about Craig... perhaps you should read it?

[GTRMagic]

The author actually posts here Wizzby

[Wizzby]

Yeah I saw Quested around here, it was a good book too

[Hobo high]

I save those types of fiction for emergency toilet paper or fire lighter .

[GTRMagic]

Not at $50 or whatever it is!

[Wizzby]

Hey, you just don't know where to shop, got mine for $29 at Big W, Kmart had it cheap too and Target...

[moffman]

Come on Dave I thought you were HRT's number one fan,surely you would know about them going testing without Lowndes in 2000?You do not think Crennan's obvious affinity with Skaife (and dislike of Brock who was Lowndes's mentor) had anything to do with Craig's departure?

[GTRMagic]

Thats enough for a gross of toilet paper! And mine cost nothing...

[Captain]

Originally posted by Dave HRT Moy
Well Captain, I suppose it doesn't.

But it's a pretty fair indication.

If you use some measure other than a driver's results to justify your claim, then I'd wager that you're in the minority.

I like Murph, he also had his time at HRT with the same basic team and support that Skaife has. From memory Lowndes (his teammate) whooped him!

So I have 5 titles, 4 Bathursts, 3 Gold star championships, a host of poles and fastest laps to justify my claim about Skaife.

You have one really quick lap of Bathurst....

Lowndes is a very quick driver, he also has records still standing from HRT days, but cars change, conditions change and tyres change. Murphy is arguably the current quick man on the most recent performance.

No Dave, I didn't make the claim, I was just defending someone else's right to a sensible opinion, without being insulted. I have seen a number of your posts from other forums and I thought a man of your perspicacity was capable of more intelligent comment, without getting into a flame fest. I am pleased to see your response to my post was made in the spirit that should have applied before.

[aj_308]

Originally posted by Dave HRT Moy
The points structure was changed in 1999, Skaife had more wins, but Lowndes won it on overall higher placings.

Mate, I don't know who got what in 2000. All I know is what I see in the stats and that shows that Skaife scored more podiums and points than Lowndes in their time together.

Skaife joined the team at Sandown in 97'. Never been in the car before and sat it on pole, soundly out qualified Lowndes (who'd won the touring car championship in almost an identical car the year before). Skaife did the same again at Bathurst that year.

He did the development work on the VT and made the HRT version almost unbeatable. Lowndes quite often would just copy Skaife's set ups and run with that.

Skaife joined the team in 97' just at the time when Lowndes was coming back from Europe.

Craig was still the golden boy at HRT at the time and if he lost favour, it was his own doing.

nice one moyso, who gives a toss about pole? For those with a shorter memory than I Craig Lowndes and Greg Murphy won the 1997 sandown 500. By the way, who mentioned Craig? not I?

[Dave HRT Moy]

Originally posted by moffman
Come on Dave I thought you were HRT's number one fan,surely you would know about them going testing without Lowndes in 2000?You do not think Crennan's obvious affinity with Skaife (and dislike of Brock who was Lowndes's mentor) had anything to do with Craig's departure?

What I know is that Lowndes had a contract on his desk ready to sign and outside factors (I'll refrain from mentioning names here) got in his ear and told him he could do so much better.

All of a sudden, the team that gave him his start and funded his F3000 drive was told that (amongst other things) he wanted a percentage of the HRT merchandise sales.

This after Mr Crennan, who you claim didn't like him, had arranged more than $600k in sponsorship from Holden, Mobil and money he put forward from HSV for his 97' F3000 season.

Mate, I know what happened, it's just most of it can't be printed on a public website...

[aj_308]

As a privately owned and operated website, we are not covered by 'Freedom Of Speech' legislation

im waiting..

[Quested]

Dave HRT Moy said:

[Skaife] did the development work on the VT and made the HRT version almost unbeatable. Lowndes quite often would just copy Skaife's set ups and run with that.

Not entirely true. The period when Skaife and Lowndes were together at HRT is an era in which 'cross polination' from one car to another (and one driver to another) was always pushing the team ahead. In my book, I attribute much of HRT's success to this. It was not a case of Mark 'copying' Craig, or Craig 'copying' Mark, but both drivers learning from the data made available from each other. In a sense, it was the competition within HRT, not with any other team, that pushed HRT forward.

Dave HRT Moy said:

Craig was still the golden boy at HRT at the time and if he lost favour, it was his own doing.

Erm... yeah... pretty true. Craig was welcomed back to HRT, and how he 'lost favour' is a long story which even I can only really tell half of (as Craig has not really shared his version of events). From the HRT point of view, Craig became more and more distracted, and less and less involved in the day-to-day goings-on at HRT. (Craig had chosen to live in Queensland. The Team is based in Melbourne.) At the same time, Mark was becoming more and more involved in things, which is only natural as Mark is not only an outstanding driver, but a great strategist, marketer, and business person - overall, a good thinker in addition to a good steerer. Craig may have been left feeling a bit left out. (This is speculation on my part.) Also, he wanted more control over his career than was available under the management contract he held with TWR.

In my personal opinion, the key problem was that contract, and Craig (and Natalie) wanting to have more control over his career. I reckon TWR/HRT made a mistake with that contract (as it entailed a conflict of interest between employing Craig as a driver and managing his career), and Craig made a mistake agreeing to it. Just my opinion.

For more details on the HRT/Lowndes break-up, see chapter 19 of my book.

Wizzby said:

Yeah I saw Quested around here, it was a good book too

Cheers :-)

Hobo High said:

I save those types of fiction for emergency toilet paper or fire lighter.

I don't care what you use it for, just buy it!

Seriously, I am proud of the fact that the book is well researched and balanced. If you believe any part of it to be fictional, or innacurate, maybe you would like to point out which parts. I would love to be corrected on any errors. If you think the book is biased, then you might like to read it - there is stuff in there that HRT would not be happy about, such as the 'doughnut boy' incident, my opinions on the Lowndes management contract (mentioned above) and the descriptions of some of the earlier years which were, frankly, pathetic.

Dave HRT Moy said:

What I know is that Lowndes had a contract on his desk ready to sign and outside factors (I'll refrain from mentioning names here) got in his ear and told him he could do so much better.

Craig had already signed a contract - a lot of the problem involved in his departure was the 'un-doing' of that contract.

All of a sudden, the team that gave him his start and funded his F3000 drive was told that (amongst other things) he wanted a percentage of the HRT merchandise sales.

It is true that, in negotiations that occured after it had been made clear that Craig wished to leave the team, Craig is reported to have made some steep demands, but also wanted more control of his own career, image, etc... merchandise would have been a part of that.

[Wizzby]

Originally posted by Quested
Cheers :-)

Hey no problems Just one little pointer if you want to produce another book like this... I know we are only small fry over here in WA, but if your going to have national launch, make sure the whole nation gets it on the same day! Took me two weeks to find someone who stocked it here (Well, that I didn't have to pay full price for )

[Grimace]

Quested that was a great post to read, and even though im an old old Ford fan and Lowndes fan im gunna look around and buy your book.

Its a damn shame Craig has not had good equipment and car speed to run at the pointy end the last couple of years as i strongly feel Skaife has as much respect for Lowndes as Ambose. He knows the ability of Craig when they had equal cars!!!

I just hope FPR ..PLEASE... give him car speed to run at the front for 2004 <<<Thats all i want for Christmas Santa!

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by Hobo high
Your unrealistic dream seqeunce continues on another motorsport forum

So does yours (Gooba/obrock)!!!!

[Mattracer]

Originally posted by Hobo high
I save those types of fiction for emergency toilet paper

Hmm, so do you scrunch or fold that?

Pretty difficult I would have thought...