IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[WolfsburgRS]

Personally I'm pretty underwhelmed by the Art Car... but I have to say 'art,' especially that of the very highest order or on the cutting edge, or whatever it may be is not always so...great? I don't mean it in a bad way, but simply in a way where it's very easy to say 'big deal' when you're looking at it, and it's not until someone explains the how or why it's important or significant that you may actually see it as such. I don't pretend to know much about it myself, but my brother works for one of the largest NYC / worldwide galleries and works with a lot of current and deceased artists' work. More than once I've failed to see the big deal in something he's shown me, but that's the thing with art. It's not always how it looks or what it is, but who did it first and what their intended message may be.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Personally I'm pretty underwhelmed by the Art Car... but I have to say 'art,' especially that of the very highest order or on the cutting edge, or whatever it may be is not always so...great? I don't mean it in a bad way, but simply in a way where it's very easy to say 'big deal' when you're looking at it, and it's not until someone explains the how or why it's important or significant that you may actually see it as such.

This is the BS that sub-par "artistes" have sold to the "Art World," which is really nothing about Art but instead is about rich people trying to find the next "big-name artist" so they can back him or her and gain party-chat status at their social events.

If someone needs a bunch of text to make a visual piece make sense ... they are writers, not painter.

Sure, one can always learn more about a piece of art through explanation, but when we have people painting an orange line on an aqua wall and calling it "art" and then taking 14 paragraphs to explain how it symbolizes man's difficult progress through a hostile world beset by disasters natural and man-made, but the indomitable human spirit always rises up and shines true ... then you have been fooled by a salesman. There is no "Art" there except the art of self-promotion and manipulation.

It isn't "daring" to glue a blue wood square on a red or yellow wood square ... but I have heard "art critics" describe it as such. It isn't "ground-breaking" to smear feces on canvas ... but you can be a "cutting-edge, avant garde artistic genius" if you can convince people it is.

It isn't "Art" to write "art" on a canvas and say, "See, it's art." That's just low-brow humor.

And what we have here is an "artist" showing everyone what asses they can be ... and no one can see it. I bet the guy would be rolling on the floor laughing ... except he has probably bought his own hype and believes he is an "artist."

If that is the standard, I can record myself saying "Music" and sell the CD for millions because I am a "cutting-edge, avant garde musical genius."

But then, seeing what some rap artists can sell by the millions ....

Oh, yeah, DPi. (relevance citation.)

[WolfsburgRS]

It's getting off topic, but the BMW LMP1 Art car was literally nothing but words.

Does it become a better Art Car if it wins?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Oh god, the old "Any news is good news!" line. People complaining about how terrible something is isn't EXACTLY what BMW wanted. If this is the logic used, then they should fire the PR crew.

No, it's not an "any news is good news" type of deal. It's an "we want to grab attention" type of deal. BMW's getting attention, just as they wanted.

You could achieve the exact same amount of talk, but in a positive light, by doing retro art liveries.

You say that, yet the "good" looking art cars of recent years haven't generated half the amount of attention and discussion as this one has.

But hey, any news is good news. That's why Samsung don't mind phones exploding, because people are talking about them.

Is the art car putting people in danger with it's problem? No. These two issues are not even remotely comparable.

Samsung's exploding phones are a serious issue that makes people not want to buy them due to personal risk, which has a negative impact on their sales.

A bad art car isn't going to negatively affect BMW's sales at all - it doesn't create any negative images about the safety or quality of the product at all. But it DOES get people talking, and that's what BMW wanted.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

A bad art car isn't going to negatively affect BMW's sales at all - it doesn't create any negative images about the safety or quality of the product at all. But it DOES get people talking, and that's what BMW wanted.

And a good one wasn't going to sell an additional car either. But I can tell you 2 dealerships here HATE the car and the signage that gets nothing but 'What the hell is that dumb thing?' comments from customers. Answering the same thing everyday gets old fast and doubt BMW is enjoying the insulting comments in the least. Bangle's fire styling got people talking and NONE of it was good, and it did cost them sales for a couple years. If anything it is getting them comments from anti-BMW people and I'm betting if you asked RLL guys they'd gladly accept vandalism to cover it and slow the questions. Personally I'm hoping the engine gives out on lap 2 and we don't have to see it.

[TF110]

Sounds like a personal problem. I don't care for BMW, but it's not so bad that I want them to fail so I don't have to see their minimalist livery. It's another entry for the race. Better them there and competitive with the goofy 'art' car than not there at all.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by TF110

Sounds like a personal problem. I don't care for BMW, but it's not so bad that I want them to fail so I don't have to see their minimalist livery. It's another entry for the race. Better them there and competitive with the goofy 'art' car than not there at all.

I agree. No need for them to fail early and not participate.

We just need to get one of the many Lambos to sideswipe them lightly on both sides.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I agree. No need for them to fail early and not participate.

We just need to get one of the many Lambos to sideswipe them lightly on both sides.

hai.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

You say that, yet the "good" looking art cars of recent years haven't generated half the amount of attention and discussion as this one has.

The BMW stripes one did, as did the Aston Martin that was meant to change colour at night. There was quite a bit of talk about how awesome that was going to be, and how disappointing it was when it didn't work.

There's plenty of talk about these liveries because the teams make a big effort hiding it and then revealing it. If you don't do a big reveal then people won't talk about it (JMW Dunlop Art livery). The car is not meant to just be talked about, it's meant to look good in the adverts, posters and tv commercials that it's going to be in when it wins. If it looks like it was designed by a 3 year old, then it just looks stupid in the classy glossy print ad that BMW paid lots of money for.

But hey, I'll go with the "It's what BMW want! You've played right into their hands" line, even if it is just nonsensical.

[WolfsburgRS]

If the point of art is to spark a reaction and open up a dialog, or impact the viewer in some way. Seems like it's worked?

The irony if it does well despite the lackluster reception will be the icing on the cake.

[Akrapovic]

If something sparking discussion because it's poor should be considered a success, then I think we'd still have Nissan driving at Le Mans with a car being talked about, that's 20 seconds off the pace

[seanyb505]

-Did you see the new BMW art car?
-Yes it's awful. Not like some art doesn't speak to me awful, like that's embarassingly not art but you paid that homeless man anyway awful
-If these are the kinds of decisions BMW is approving these days, what other kind of stupid things are getting through?
-Yeah having such a poor idea make it this far says something about the brand.
-X4 and X6, and the GT things...
-I'll probably be shopping with other manufacturers for my next car.


I don't think this is the conversation BMW wanted

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If something sparking discussion because it's poor should be considered a success, then I think we'd still have Nissan driving at Le Mans with a car being talked about, that's 20 seconds off the pace

LOL, Touche.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

-Did you see the new BMW art car?
-Yes it's awful. Not like some art doesn't speak to me awful, like that's embarassingly not art but you paid that homeless man anyway awful
-If these are the kinds of decisions BMW is approving these days, what other kind of stupid things are getting through?
-Yeah having such a poor idea make it this far says something about the brand.
-X4 and X6, and the GT things...
-I'll probably be shopping with other manufacturers for my next car.


I don't think this is the conversation BMW wanted

GT things most likely refers to the 5 and 3 series GT, not the racecars.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The BMW stripes one did, as did the Aston Martin that was meant to change colour at night. There was quite a bit of talk about how awesome that was going to be, and how disappointing it was when it didn't work.

No they didn't. There was the usual initial interest from the hardcore fans, then it all stopped. It's generated only a fraction of the discussion this one has.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If something sparking discussion because it's poor should be considered a success, then I think we'd still have Nissan driving at Le Mans with a car being talked about, that's 20 seconds off the pace

A bad paint job and rushing a radical project to the track after maybe 1/3 of the development time it needed are two COMPLETELY different things.

Go ahead and keep comparing apples to oranges - it only proves further that you've done exactly what BMW wanted.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

No they didn't. There was the usual initial interest from the hardcore fans, then it all stopped. It's generated only a fraction of the discussion this one has.

[citation needed]

A bad paint job and rushing a radical project to the track after maybe 1/3 of the development time it needed are two COMPLETELY different things.

Go ahead and keep comparing apples to oranges - it only proves further that you've done exactly what BMW wanted.

You can compare apples and oranges. They're both fruit. Oranges are crap and apples are better.

You can compare marketing attempts. They're both marketing attempts. If their goal was to make some motorsport nerds argue on a forum, they achieved it. If their goal was anything else, than unfortunately BMW have made an orange.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

[citation needed]



You can compare apples and oranges. They're both fruit. Oranges are crap and apples are better.

You can compare marketing attempts. They're both marketing attempts. If their goal was to make some motorsport nerds argue on a forum, they achieved it. If their goal was anything else, than unfortunately BMW have made an orange.

You sure it's not a lemon?

[Akrapovic]

It's rare when someone types "lol" on the internet that they actually did lol, but I did with that one.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

This is the BS that sub-par "artistes" have sold to the "Art World," which is really nothing about Art but instead is about rich people trying to find the next "big-name artist" so they can back him or her and gain party-chat status at their social events.

If someone needs a bunch of text to make a visual piece make sense ... they are writers, not painter.

Sure, one can always learn more about a piece of art through explanation, but when we have people painting an orange line on an aqua wall and calling it "art" and then taking 14 paragraphs to explain how it symbolizes man's difficult progress through a hostile world beset by disasters natural and man-made, but the indomitable human spirit always rises up and shines true ... then you have been fooled by a salesman. There is no "Art" there except the art of self-promotion and manipulation.

It isn't "daring" to glue a blue wood square on a red or yellow wood square ... but I have heard "art critics" describe it as such. It isn't "ground-breaking" to smear feces on canvas ... but you can be a "cutting-edge, avant garde artistic genius" if you can convince people it is.

It isn't "Art" to write "art" on a canvas and say, "See, it's art." That's just low-brow humor.

And what we have here is an "artist" showing everyone what asses they can be ... and no one can see it. I bet the guy would be rolling on the floor laughing ... except he has probably bought his own hype and believes he is an "artist."

If that is the standard, I can record myself saying "Music" and sell the CD for millions because I am a "cutting-edge, avant garde musical genius."

But then, seeing what some rap artists can sell by the millions ....

Oh, yeah, DPi. (relevance citation.)

This was a solid rant. Well done. Would read again and I agree.

Off topic from the paint job, does anyone else expect a Ferrari/bmw fight for the gtlm championship this year? Think about it: it's all bop nonsense, two years ago Porsche won, last year we got the Ford/Chevy battle, now it's Ferrari/bmw's turn. Then next year or the year after, whichever has a greater significance to the historic lemans battles, we'll get a Ford/Ferrari fight. One way or another, each make will get their turn in the spotlight over a four year or so span.

[Maelochs]

Not sure which year Porsche gets to win with its new mid-engined chassis. I am sure they will lobby for the right to win, telling IMSA that if they cannot justify the new chassis to management the racing program will be shut down.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

A bad paint job and rushing a radical project to the track after maybe 1/3 of the development time it needed are two COMPLETELY different things..

Not to be overly pedantic... but, the Nissan failed because Torotrak couldn't deliver what they promised. And by the time they got close, the budget was out of control and the time needed to catch up before the new regulations cycle was going to be exceeded.

But, I'm sure you know that.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Not to be overly pedantic... but, the Nissan failed because Torotrak couldn't deliver what they promised. And by the time they got close, the budget was out of control and the time needed to catch up before the new regulations cycle was going to be exceeded.

But, I'm sure you know that.

Yes, those are the specifics issues, but at the end of the day it's not unfair to say that all of the problems likely would have been avoided if Nissan had not rushed the project. Everything happened about a year before it should have relative to when they began development.

Also, it wasn't JUST the hybrid - the suspension was woefully underdeveloped, which caused some serious stability issues in the corners. They'd pretty much gotten that fixed when the plug was pulled from what I've heard.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

[citation needed]

Same can be said of your original assertion.

You can compare apples and oranges.

And that's their ONLY similarity(as you noted).

You can compare marketing attempts. They're both marketing attempts.

Sure, you CAN compare, but it doesn't mean the comparison makes sense.

If their goal was to make some motorsport nerds argue on a forum, they achieved it.

It's dialogue. It got people talking. It got them attention. And the worst case scenario is no effect on their bottom line.

If their goal was anything else, than unfortunately BMW have made an orange.

Don't forget that many people LOVE oranges. I'm not one of them, for the record - give me a good apple any day.

But I won't deny an orange to those who like them.

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Not to be overly pedantic... but, the Nissan failed because Torotrak couldn't deliver what they promised. And by the time they got close, the budget was out of control and the time needed to catch up before the new regulations cycle was going to be exceeded.

But, I'm sure you know that.

Maybe, why they failed. Pretty optimistic statement on your part here. I saw the car in person and while I'm not an engineer, it did not look the part of the other p1s, not even close. My opinion...they were way off, with or without the hybrid system..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[TF110]

Originally Posted by schmidder

Maybe, why they failed. Pretty optimistic statement on your part here. I saw the car in person and while I'm not an engineer, it did not look the part of the other p1s, not even close. My opinion...they were way off, with or without the hybrid system..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Of course it didn't look like the others, it was fwd! What happened to this thread anyway?