Audi R10 improvements

[templer]

According to an article in the german magazine "Sport Auto" Audi was very impressed from the speed the Peugeot showed at the winter tests. Audi tried to improve their car in three areas: more mechanical grip, more downforce and more engine power. On the aero side the car was fitted at Sebring with a new rear wing, a changed underbody and some changes on the parts connecting the front fenders with the chassis ( Suspension covers).
Seems that they have lost reability.
In an later article it was published that the Peugeot was much better in fast corners at Sebring.

[Bentley03]

Slightly ironic thread title!

You're right, in trying to match the pace of the Peugeot, Audi would appear to have forfeited some of their reliability (which when compared to the R8 was questionable anyway). They're rattled, and over the 1000km race distance, I suspect Peugeot will start as favourites. Audi are having a tough time of it, Penske in the States and Peugeot in Europe. They wanted some 'real' competition........seems they've got it!

Fascinating season in prospect..............

[AU N EGL]

Isn't competition wonderful for race car development?

[templer]

Well the meaning of the title name isn't ironic. I choose ist cause I haven't see any new parts on the pics from Sebring and was surprised that Audi have changed a lot. But a new wing profil is hard to see on normal pic. For this you need close ups.
I am sure Audi have a problem at the moment, but on the earlier ( not later of course) article Audi said they thought they have more engine power and the faster car on the straight line which is very important for Le Mans and the R10 is bullet proof. Sebring showed us this is wrong but Peugeot still have had more problems so 24 hours will be hard for them.
I am also sure Audi will work hard and we will see further improvements.
But in Germany was always told after the Porsche victories that Audi have built their R10 too much for the Le Mans requirements and have a not ideal car for slower circuits, but it was not mentioned why. Porsche and Peugeot have also a long wheelbase, the R10 produce more downforce than the R8 so there is the problem.
I think in the moment the Peugeot have the better suspension and the better aero and Audi have the better engine.

[Purist]

Another problem for Audi is, despite the claims, they had slower trap speeds than the Peugeot at Sebring. So, even if they do have a better engine, it would seem that the Audi's difficulty in the corners (aero grip and ability to put the power down) significantly diminish its straight line performance.

[Mal]

I wonder if the Audi and Peugeot hares pushing each other into breakdowns could let a tortoise in at Le Mans this year

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Mal

I wonder if the Audi and Peugeot hares pushing each other into breakdowns could let a tortoise in at Le Mans this year

With six cars between them I'd be surprised to see a tortoise get to the top step, but a podium must be a very real possibility. There's also the prospect a surprise or two in some of the 1,000 km races. Peugeot, while not under much pressure at all last year, showed that they could be fragile, with Audi and Peugeot going at each other hopefully hammer and tongs, were I Creation/Oreca/Pescarolo/Charouz I might have a degree of optimism that with a following wind luck might fall my way.

[prototype]

Originally Posted by Mal

I wonder if the Audi and Peugeot hares pushing each other into breakdowns could let a tortoise in at Le Mans this year

Not with 6 of them.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by prototype

Not with 6 of them.

i beg to differ

i hardly think the R10 has improved for this year, in terms of speed only, it seems to get that little extra go audi have sacrificed some of their reliability and driveability of the car to keep up with peugeot.

i wonder if audi will have their issues sorted out in time for lemans, whilst we have barcelona coming up in a week or so, it will be interesting to see how the audi and peugeot will perform at tracks the cars have not been on before, making for a more level playing field imo.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Mal

I wonder if the Audi and Peugeot hares pushing each other into breakdowns could let a tortoise in at Le Mans this year

Hell Mal, you're looking through my tinted specs man........

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Mal

I wonder if the Audi and Peugeot hares pushing each other into breakdowns could let a tortoise in at Le Mans this year

Of course the tortoise to which you refer could be that Charouz Lola-Aston.

It will be interesting see how quick it is, with its performance breaks from being a production-derived engine it ight not be that much of tortoise.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Mal

I wonder if the Audi and Peugeot hares pushing each other into breakdowns could let a tortoise in at Le Mans this year

Go Pesca

[Aysedasi]

Wouldn't that be nice...........?

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by johntt

Of course the tortoise to which you refer could be that Charouz Lola-Aston.

It will be interesting see how quick it is, with its performance breaks from being a production-derived engine it ight not be that much of tortoise.

it shouldnt be a tortoise round lemans, with the performance breaks and the coupe format it should at lemans be faster than the very fast pescarolo which should put it in audi or pug territory in terms of speed in qualifying atleast but in the race, im unsure.

how much of a performance break does the DBR9 engine get over say a judd 5.5 V10 anyways?

it cant be that much at all.

[supermario21]

I don't know if the Lola-Aston will be reliable enough over 24 hours.if it lasts it will definitely be right at the sharp end. Maybe the "other" Charouz car (Cytosport) along with the Pescas would be the steady and smooth "tortoises" compared to the diesels. While Greg Pickett may be a bit slow I'm sure Klaus Graf and especially Jan Lammers will keep the car up there. Jan has always been quick (remember him in the Dome mixing it up with the Audis a few years back) and the Lola-Judd is a solid package. I would go the Pescarolos then Cytosport as being most likely to be around mostly intact after 24 hours. But anyways, its nice to see a real threat to Audi (Bentley didn't count) this decade in the LMS. With the increased competition we'll see how real Audi is. Perhaps all the naysayers who complained Audi had no works' competition were right.

[Zytek_Fan]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

it shouldnt be a tortoise round lemans, with the performance breaks and the coupe format it should at lemans be faster than the very fast pescarolo which should put it in audi or pug territory in terms of speed in qualifying atleast but in the race, im unsure.

how much of a performance break does the DBR9 engine get over say a judd 5.5 V10 anyways?

it cant be that much at all.

Larger restrictors.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by supermario21

I don't know if the Lola-Aston will be reliable enough over 24 hours.if it lasts it will definitely be right at the sharp end. Maybe the "other" Charouz car (Cytosport) along with the Pescas would be the steady and smooth "tortoises" compared to the diesels. While Greg Pickett may be a bit slow I'm sure Klaus Graf and especially Jan Lammers will keep the car up there. Jan has always been quick (remember him in the Dome mixing it up with the Audis a few years back) and the Lola-Judd is a solid package. I would go the Pescarolos then Cytosport as being most likely to be around mostly intact after 24 hours. But anyways, its nice to see a real threat to Audi (Bentley didn't count) this decade in the LMS. With the increased competition we'll see how real Audi is. Perhaps all the naysayers who complained Audi had no works' competition were right.

i think in terms of reliability the lola aston is a safe bet, i cant exactly see it going wrong, the engine is proven and very reliable, id be surprised if it broke, remember the cytosport lola judd is last years car, its running last years engine and gearbox as far as i know, a lack of development on that front could harm the cytosport entry despite having a good driver line up, with the development on the pescarolo, creation and lola B08/60 i wouldnt put my money on the cytosport car for being the tortoise.

without sounding dull, the tortoise will almost certainly be the #16 pescarolo, it has the drivers and works tremendously well at lemans and then there is rollcentre, and after last year im surprised nobody mentioned them, the lola aston should be up there, but lets see how barcelona pans out to get an idea of the speed of the cars.

[prototype]

I find it hard to say the Lola Aston is a 24 hour car. How did we get here from the Audi R10 improvements thread.

This year Le Mans is between Pug and Audi. From the looks of Sebring, Audi will be the tortoise and Pug will be the hare. With the hare last at that pace?

[sssssssss]

Hopefully Audi will get faster than what they showed at Sebring, compared to the Peugeot. Seemingly, the European version of the R10 seems to be doing a lot better than the American version - at Paul Ricard, Audi were about 4 seconds (!!!) quicker than Peugeot last year. Now again, at Barcelona, Audi and Peugeot are quite equally matched, while the American R10 is currently 2 seconds slower than it was last year, at St. Petersburg - they really seem to be having troubles in the ALMS, but they're extremely quick in LMS. And I guess the European Audi R10s will participate at Le Mans.

[Purist]

Well, it will be one of each, plus a third car; both Audi and Peugeot are running three works cars at Le Mans this year. I guess the question is which team will supply the third car.

It definitely looks like the R10 doesn't handle the bumps, like the ones at Sebring, as well as the 908. So yeah, the Audis over here are having a harder time of it on the rougher American circuits, plus they get to have fun with half a dozen works/semi-works LMP2s (3 Acuras, 2 Porsches, 1 Mazda).

[Zurbert82]

Well, Audi are on pole for St Pete despite only 3 laps in qualifying.

[benjabulle]

Premat reported that the Peugeot was faster at the end of the straight at Barcelona, of about 7/8 Km/h, he thinks that's coming from the aerodynamics, the Peugeot being a more advanced concept. From what I saw, the R10 had a huge rear tail gurney, much bigger than the Peugeot, that didn't help the drag.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by benjabulle

Premat reported that the Peugeot was faster at the end of the straight at Barcelona, of about 7/8 Km/h, he thinks that's coming from the aerodynamics, the Peugeot being a more advanced concept. From what I saw, the R10 had a huge rear tail gurney, much bigger than the Peugeot, that didn't help the drag.

Ya, I think the coupes inherently have better aero coefficients. Maybe we will see an Audi coupe sooner rather than later.

L.P.

[gwyllion]

Up to 200 km/h Audi can follow Peugeot, but then the 908 starts pulling away. And Peugeot has a better suspension, so Audi is running a bit more downforce to follow them in the bends.

[gwyllion]

Looking at live timing Peugeot is consistently around 1.5 sec faster during the race, but pitstops of Audi are faster.

Audi has to improve the car to challenge Peugeot in LMS.