Frentzen and the Sauber

golem · 4 Jan 2003, 16:22 (Ref:463636)

Whoa, no need to worry about Sauber slipping further next year... I can't believe I missed this. Until just now I didn't know (or at least, assuming F1 racing net is right) he was going to be driving for them. I knew Massa was free but didn't know who replaced him.

Things look good for that team if they can churn out a decent chassis to suite the engine package beause HHF is absolutely no slouchand they should not be lacking for hp or lightness... Dizamn, how'd I miss this?

Do we hear any takers on Sauber beating Renault? I'll only give you 3:2 odds though.

TheGreatJuan · 4 Jan 2003, 16:33 (Ref:463643)

Schumi will make sure Frentzen does not get a car that is within the second of his Ferrari. If so Frentzen might end up lapping Schumi in those driver tracks

Red · 4 Jan 2003, 16:35 (Ref:463646)

Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreatJuan
Schumi will make sure Frentzen does not get a car that is within the second of his Ferrari.

Oh boy. How is that?

TheGreatJuan · 4 Jan 2003, 16:39 (Ref:463652)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Oh boy. How is that?

Take a look at their stats when they drove similar cars in their early career. You might find that Schumi was quite a clown, specially in DTM.

BootsOntheSide · 4 Jan 2003, 16:49 (Ref:463656)

Schumacher beat Frentzen in German F3, was faster in Sportscars most of the time, and I don't think he did anything other than occasional DTM races, and Touring Cars are very different to F1 cars (guys like Schneider, Winklehock adn Tarquini have won major Touring Car titles after achieving little in F1 (although Tarquini showed pretty well).

By the time Michael was setting F1 alight, Frentzen was struggling in Japanese F3000. I couldn't imagine Michael being well off Jacques' pace in a good Williams, or behind Trulli in the Jordans. He's good, but not as good as Michael.

golem · 4 Jan 2003, 17:09 (Ref:463672)

He's no schumacher for sure, but I think he can be quick enough to catch the Renaults.

Kex · 4 Jan 2003, 17:17 (Ref:463679)

The only mistake Frentzen made was leaving Mercedes sportscars in 1991 to race in F3000 with a team that wasn't good enough for various reasons. Had he stayed with Mercedes, he might have got the F1 break with Jordan instead of Schumacher, especially seeing as he'd driven for Jordan in F3000 in 1990.

He was as good as Schumacher at Mercedes but Michael has developed much better and reached his full potential in F1.

TheGreatJuan · 4 Jan 2003, 18:04 (Ref:463701)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kex
The only mistake Frentzen made was leaving Mercedes sportscars in 1991 to race in F3000 with a team that wasn't good enough for various reasons. Had he stayed with Mercedes, he might have got the F1 break with Jordan instead of Schumacher, especially seeing as he'd driven for Jordan in F3000 in 1990.

He was as good as Schumacher at Mercedes but Michael has developed much better and reached his full potential in F1.

Don't forget that Schumi got a better manager. Who else would have gotten him such a nice contracts

Don K · 4 Jan 2003, 21:41 (Ref:463847)

Quote:

Originally posted by TheGreatJuan
Don't forget that Schumi got a better manager. Who else would have gotten him such a nice contracts

Weber may have gotten him into the Jordan seat.

But I think it was Michael himself (i.e. the way he drove that Jordan) who has gotten him into the Benetton contract.

And the fact that Ferrari signed him has probably more to do with Michaels results (and driving skills) in the Benetton, than with Weber's managing skills...

Damon · 4 Jan 2003, 21:52 (Ref:463860)

Please TGJ, I beg of you, stop making these wild remarks. The minute JPM gets the WDC these quotes will be thrown right back at you.

steve nielsen · 4 Jan 2003, 22:14 (Ref:463884)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
Please TGJ, I beg of you, stop making these wild remarks. The minute JPM gets the WDC these quotes will be thrown right back at you.

wich will be one year after DC becomes WDC??

Jordi · 5 Jan 2003, 00:48 (Ref:464022)

I find Frentzen to be a better choice than Massa.. so they should have a better year, following that Jordi-logic

Minardi fan · 5 Jan 2003, 01:02 (Ref:464039)

Definitely a better choice than Massa - HHF's performances in the Arrows were superb.

f1manoz · 5 Jan 2003, 01:33 (Ref:464061)

Completely agree with Mfan. Massa is not F1 material at the moment. HHF drove magnificently - when he had the chance - last year.

steve nielsen · 5 Jan 2003, 07:15 (Ref:464213)

Quote:

Originally posted by f1manoz
Completely agree with Mfan. Massa is not F1 material at the moment. HHF drove magnificently - when he had the chance - last year.

But I still think Jos could have done the same(or even better) with that car, it was so much better than the A22(and the Asiatech engine)

f1manoz · 5 Jan 2003, 08:09 (Ref:464232)

Yeah, but Steve, you are biased!

BootsOntheSide · 5 Jan 2003, 11:06 (Ref:464316)

Bernoldi matched Verstappen. Frentzen trounced Bernoldi. Frentzen is a triple Grand Prix winner, took Jordan on anotehr level and often matched Villeneuve. Verstappen can't even remember to brake when the race leader has just lapped you, and ahs been trashed by every decent team-mate he's ever had, and even by journeymen like De La Rosa.

DNQ · 5 Jan 2003, 12:19 (Ref:464373)

Just my opinion on the Sauber battle next year, I honestly think Heidfeld can rise to the occasion. Against Kimi in 2001, he was fantastic and IMO clearly the better driver. This year, disappointed at not being at Mclaren, and partnering an erratic Massa, he was off colour. I am sure next year he'll be back where he was in 2001. Heidfeld is a great talent, underrated by SO many people.

Don K · 5 Jan 2003, 12:40 (Ref:464405)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Bernoldi matched Verstappen. Frentzen trounced Bernoldi. Frentzen is a triple Grand Prix winner, took Jordan on anotehr level and often matched Villeneuve. Verstappen can't even remember to brake when the race leader has just lapped you, and ahs been trashed by every decent team-mate he's ever had, and even by journeymen like De La Rosa.

Have you actually been watching F1 during the last 3 years?

NiceGuyEddie · 5 Jan 2003, 15:21 (Ref:464497)

Frentzen has shone quite a few times in his career. He has proven to be a great asset to a team, once he is actually listened to. At Arrows last year, he got the seat (and a first test) on februari 7th. The first 'real' test he got the week before the Spanish GP. That test proved immediatly fruitful. HHF will do more than ok in the Sauber. It will also be judgement-season for Heidfeld.

Mr V · 5 Jan 2003, 15:35 (Ref:464505)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
But I still think Jos could have done the same(or even better) with that car, it was so much better than the A22(and the Asiatech engine)

yer, right!

Mr V · 5 Jan 2003, 15:37 (Ref:464507)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Bernoldi matched Verstappen. Frentzen trounced Bernoldi. Frentzen is a triple Grand Prix winner, took Jordan on anotehr level and often matched Villeneuve. Verstappen can't even remember to brake when the race leader has just lapped you, and ahs been trashed by every decent team-mate he's ever had, and even by journeymen like De La Rosa.

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
Have you actually been watching F1 during the last 3 years?

I'd say that Boots has been watching F1 for the last 3 years

TheGreatJuan · 5 Jan 2003, 15:47 (Ref:464513)

Yeah. Boobs had that one right

NiceGuyEddie · 5 Jan 2003, 15:56 (Ref:464518)

Boots was spot on.

z2252314 · 6 Jan 2003, 00:00 (Ref:464932)

Quote:

Schumi will make sure Frentzen does not get a car that is within the second of his Ferrari.

So Michael is Frentzen's manager now? Well what happened in 97 when Heinz inherited the best car in the field.

Quote:

If so Frentzen might end up lapping Schumi in those driver tracks

I dont remember Michael being lapped to often in 97. In fact, I remember Michael convincingly beating Heinz.... and do you mean 'driver' tracks like Spa and Suzuka ? Pllleaaassseee!!!!!

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