WEC Race 2016 FIA WEC 6 Hours of Fuji - Race Thread - Page 13

Toyotats03OUS · 16 Oct 2016, 08:09 (Ref:3680633)

lol you guys are funny..

J Jay · 16 Oct 2016, 08:11 (Ref:3680634)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

In the end, it all worked out for everyone except Porsche. They should have gone with Hartley and old tires.

They really, really should have, even if they knew that the tyres wouldn't last it was worth having a go.

It would have been a sub-50s stop when the #5 was at least a minute behind. Even if Webber/Hartley were (much) slower, at least they would have had a chance.

Edit - Back to Audi ... those two slow stops for the #8 in the middle of the race, the 89 second stops compared to 85 seconds. That's at least 8 seconds lost. Which would have put them...

TF110 · 16 Oct 2016, 08:28 (Ref:3680641)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I thought you wanted Porsche to win???

What happened is i called you a biased Toyota fan (true, I believe) when you were talking about Porsche. I ignored the part I got wrong (thought you were talking about Toyota) and played off the "biased Toyota fan" riff, because even though you can go a bit too far in a debate, as a rule you are a sensible and level-headed poster and I felt safe teasing you about me being wrong.

In the end, it all worked out for everyone except Porsche. They should have gone with Hartley and old tires.

I understood you. I was trying to play the dumb route like I was being serious

But I did think Porsche was going to win once they got past Sarrazin. I think he was on the slow side today, but it worked out for them anyway. Drive of the day goes to Kobayashi.

Starfish Primer · 16 Oct 2016, 10:59 (Ref:3680665)

Happy to see Toyota winning at home. Audi deserves a win too.

We are living a golden era in endurance, 3 manufacurers can win any race with minimal differences.

One question, could Audi have won if they didn't changed tires in the last pitstop?

J Jay · 16 Oct 2016, 12:31 (Ref:3680675)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

One question, could Audi have won if they didn't changed tires in the last pitstop?

Potentially - the #8 would have been a few seconds ahead of the #5 after their stops, but we know that Di Grassi was complaining about the rears going off when they only changed the lefts, so Duval might not have been able to stay ahead of Kobayashi. Although when Di Grassi made the complaint, he went on to complete the 34 lap stint at a good pace (as good as the #6/#1) so perhaps he/they were overly cautious.

Let's put it this way - it made more sense for Audi to put sticker tyres on than it did for Porsche to opt for a scrubbed set...

billy bleach · 16 Oct 2016, 15:12 (Ref:3680693)

Just watched the highlights on Eurosport Thank God Stuart Hall was on hand to keep correcting Mark Cole. Coles sniggering delivery always grates but the factual inaccuracy is a joke for a World Championship coverage.....

jimclark · 16 Oct 2016, 15:32 (Ref:3680694)

Monday morning quarterbacks. Enjoy.

Articus · 16 Oct 2016, 16:18 (Ref:3680699)

Excellent race from Toyota!! I'm so happy to see then win there home race and for the team to feel good for once...They deserve to feel good at some point in this season.

Akrapovic · 16 Oct 2016, 17:46 (Ref:3680712)

Brilliant race! Found myself shouting for Toyota at the end.

well deserved.

TF110 · 16 Oct 2016, 20:42 (Ref:3680750)

If anyone noticed, it seemed the Super GT/Super Formula guys had a little bit of an edge in speed this race. Duval was the fastest for Audi, Kobayashi and Nakajima for Toyota etc. I think Porsche would have been there if they had a guy more experienced on the Japanese circuits.

MoMedic9019 · 16 Oct 2016, 20:49 (Ref:3680752)

I've always wanted the bus stop after Dunlop removed for this round. I think the high speed coming into the next set of corners would be more challenging.

J Jay · 16 Oct 2016, 21:36 (Ref:3680764)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

If anyone noticed, it seemed the Super GT/Super Formula guys had a little bit of an edge in speed this race. Duval was the fastest for Audi, Kobayashi and Nakajima for Toyota etc. I think Porsche would have been there if they had a guy more experienced on the Japanese circuits.

Interesting proposal, to add to that Jarvis also did very well in his opening stints.

Would the same hold true for any of the LMP2 drivers? I('m tired and I) can't think of any of them having raced in Japan for a significant length of time.

Beryl · 16 Oct 2016, 21:54 (Ref:3680767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

If anyone noticed, it seemed the Super GT/Super Formula guys had a little bit of an edge in speed this race. Duval was the fastest for Audi, Kobayashi and Nakajima for Toyota etc. I think Porsche would have been there if they had a guy more experienced on the Japanese circuits.

I'm sure it helps for Duval, Lotterer and Nakajima to have all that track experience, but there was nobody in the winning car with significant Fuji experience. Marc Lieb, Mark Webber and Neel Jani have as much racing experience at Fuji as anybody in the winning #6.

Furthermore, Sarrazin has the most racing experience at Fuji in the winning car, yet was arguably their slowest driver.

jimclark · 17 Oct 2016, 01:03 (Ref:3680791)

....And at this level, after three practices (4 hours) and 5 hours of racing, a pro (or any for that matter) driver should know the circuit, let alone if they've been there before. Case in point: notice the lap times from practice 2&3 and "fastest" laps of the 6 LMPs during the race...pretty much the same. They've learned the circuit.

You're first time at a circuit, low number of laps, okay, a regular could have an edge. That should go away very quickly however, it's only a 3 mile, 1 1/2 min. circuit.

Coach Ep · 17 Oct 2016, 02:38 (Ref:3680803)

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Jay

Interesting proposal, to add to that Jarvis also did very well in his opening stints.

Would the same hold true for any of the LMP2 drivers? I('m tired and I) can't think of any of them having raced in Japan for a significant length of time.

Richard Bradley I think. And maybe Lapierre as he's done quite a few testing laps for Toyota at Fuji?

TF110 · 17 Oct 2016, 02:42 (Ref:3680804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beryl

I'm sure it helps for Duval, Lotterer and Nakajima to have all that track experience, but there was nobody in the winning car with significant Fuji experience. Marc Lieb, Mark Webber and Neel Jani have as much racing experience at Fuji as anybody in the winning #6.

Furthermore, Sarrazin has the most racing experience at Fuji in the winning car, yet was arguably their slowest driver.

Well Kobayashi has now raced there twice this year, and raced there once in Super Formula last year as well as with AF Corse in 2013. Sarrazin races once a year when the WEC visits. In 2012 only one Toyota raced, so they're both equal at 4.

Plus Super Formula pre-season tests at Fuji. There was a big battle in lmp2 with the Alpine and the Manor with the latter having a guy who does racing in Japan. Forgot his name.

Beryl · 17 Oct 2016, 09:01 (Ref:3680854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Well Kobayashi has now raced there twice this year, and raced there once in Super Formula last year as well as with AF Corse in 2013. Sarrazin races once a year when the WEC visits. In 2012 only one Toyota raced, so they're both equal at 4.

In 2012 Sarrazin was with Starworks, but regardless, my point was that nobody in the winning #6 had an exceptional amount of Fuji experience and yet they managed to win the race. At this level, track experience is rarely much more than a very marginal benefit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

There was a big battle in lmp2 with the Alpine and the Manor with the latter having a guy who does racing in Japan. Forgot his name.

Richard Bradley. He was in Japanese F3 and then did a season of Super Formula (where he finished last or near last if I recall correctly).

Akrapovic · 17 Oct 2016, 11:04 (Ref:3680872)

There's a difference betweening knowing the track for a few hours and simulator runs, and knowing the track for years. It makes a difference at any level - Eddie Irvine, Suzuka.

Matt · 17 Oct 2016, 13:30 (Ref:3680905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I've always wanted the bus stop after Dunlop removed for this round. I think the high speed coming into the next set of corners would be more challenging.

I don't think that link has ever been used for top level motorsport, which is a shame.

jimclark · 17 Oct 2016, 15:16 (Ref:3680929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

There's a difference betweening knowing the track for a few hours and simulator runs, and knowing the track for years. It makes a difference at any level - Eddie Irvine, Suzuka.

Baaahh. Humbug.

I never made it to the bigtime, we had no "simulators", and it was done.

TF110 · 18 Oct 2016, 05:01 (Ref:3681019)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beryl

In 2012 Sarrazin was with Starworks, but regardless, my point was that nobody in the winning #6 had an exceptional amount of Fuji experience and yet they managed to win the race. At this level, track experience is rarely much more than a very marginal benefit. Richard Bradley. He was in Japanese F3 and then did a season of Super Formula (where he finished last or near last if I recall correctly).

That's right, I forgot about Sarrazin being in an lmp2.

carbsmith · 18 Oct 2016, 06:38 (Ref:3681032)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

I don't think that link has ever been used for top level motorsport, which is a shame.

I don't think it's used for anything but an escape road.

GasperG · 18 Oct 2016, 06:54 (Ref:3681035)

Didn't watch the whole race, but according to pit stop analysis did Audi change tires every time in the pits?

Two 1:29 in the pits was probably tire gun problem?

Toyota #6 did a really great job in the pits only 7:44.965 total time
#1 Porsche: 7:58.855
#5 Toyota: 8:08.824
#2 Porsche: 8:10.992
#8 Audi: 8:32.869

I know, I know, Audi has a deficit in fuelling time and stint length, but how much? 15-20s over 6 pit stops?

Akrapovic · 18 Oct 2016, 07:30 (Ref:3681040)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasperG

Didn't watch the whole race, but according to pit stop analysis did Audi change tires every time in the pits?

Two 1:29 in the pits was probably tire gun problem?

Toyota #6 did a really great job in the pits only 7:44.965 total time
#1 Porsche: 7:58.855
#5 Toyota: 8:08.824
#2 Porsche: 8:10.992
#8 Audi: 8:32.869

I know, I know, Audi has a deficit in fuelling time and stint length, but how much? 15-20s over 6 pit stops?

3-4 seconds a stop. So around 24 seconds maximum. Any other loss is Audi.

GasperG · 18 Oct 2016, 07:43 (Ref:3681042)

Stint length also gives you longer last pit stop, because at the last pit stop you must fuel more than 8MJ petrol rivals. So last pit stop would be additional couple of sec longer even if fuel duration would be the same.

But from what I'm seeing 3-4s per pit stop is a little on the high side.

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