IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

To quote the late great Merle Haggard
"The best anybody's ever had."

BoPing...? The best anybody's had...?

I don't think so.

Rules. Choose your weapon. Design, build and develop. May the best team win. That's the best. Anything else is lowering the bar.

[WolfsburgRS]

The point is that everyone looks at the past through rose colored glasses. The good old days, at the time, were just the days. IMSA's much loved, much mourned GTP class was technically a BOP'd class. Sure they didn't call it BOP back then, but it was power to weight based and there were adjustments in the middle of competition years.

When was the last real open class sports car formula started, when did it end, and why did it end?

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

The point is that everyone looks at the past through rose colored glasses. The good old days, at the time, were just the days. IMSA's much loved, much mourned GTP class was technically a BOP'd class. Sure they didn't call it BOP back then, but it was power to weight based and there were adjustments in the middle of competition years.

When was the last real open class sports car formula started, when did it end, and why did it end?

Late 1990's GT1 maybe? And that history is well documented.

[MaskedRacer]

What do you look forward to for the rest of the season now? I have the two all GT races at Lime Rock and VIR marked down for sure. I think Porsche and Risi Ferrari will get victories soon as well. BMW..err not so sure. I think Turner BMW winning in GTD is more likely at this point.

Speaking of GTD. I feel that we will see very very few teams win 2 races or more this year. Could see a different team or make win each race.

Cadillac could win every prototype race in 2017. Anybody would be willing to bet that? If they do then they deserve it. Its not BoP. That is the best car and the best teams (AXR, WTR) are running it.

[HORNDAWG]

The rest of the season.







L.P.

[WolfsburgRS]

Definitely looking forward to VIR. My favorite track with my favorite two classes. The only real low point for me track wise is COTA which feels to sterile to me, but I've never been fortunate to attend there so that could just be my perception.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Late 1990's GT1 maybe? And that history is well documented.

I'm fairly certain that GT1 still had all the usual items in place to balance performance, such as turbocharged displacement multipliers, boost limits, sonic air restrictors, NA displacement rules, and the similar items.

[Maelochs]

From what I can glean, there has Always been politics in racing. It is a human endeavor, and humans in competition will do almost anything to win ... including breaking rules, bending rules, and influencing the making of rules.

I recall some brouhaha over three-liter sports cars being dumped in favor of 5-liter .... seems a little firm called Ferrari got the shaft there. But certainly Mr. Enzo never twisted an arm anywhere, say, by threatening to pull out of a series?

Just the stuff we know about and what we know of human nature makes me think there has been "adjustment" and "consideration" being made all the time. maybe we have no actual news about it going back before the 50s .... does anyone think it started then?

Sometimes things have been a little more obvious ... i hear Jean Marie Balestre certainly liked to see French teams win in F1. He must have been pretty outrageously bad if Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone looked better by comparison.

Yes, things have been better ... and worse. of course, those terms have different meanings to each of us.

Hopefully no one will ever have to look back on now as "The Goode Olde Days" because hopefully things will just get better and better ... but I bet people watching Can-Am complained, "This is bogus. Only McLaren can win."

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by jimclark

BoPing...? The best anybody's had...?

I don't think so.

Rules. Choose your weapon. Design, build and develop. May the best team win. That's the best. Anything else is lowering the bar.

Imsa is a compromise. In exchange for a "stable" series you get bop. At least with the current management. A bar lowered for some, raised for others. There's no denying it's second rate on a global scale though.

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

The point is that everyone looks at the past through rose colored glasses. The good old days, at the time, were just the days. IMSA's much loved, much mourned GTP class was technically a BOP'd class. Sure they didn't call it BOP back then, but it was power to weight based and there were adjustments in the middle of competition years.

When was the last real open class sports car formula started, when did it end, and why did it end?

I've heard it said the "Golden Days" are typically the period of time that one first started watching a series. It makes sense, because that's when you know the least about what goes on behind the scenes. The more I learn about what's going on behind the scenes today, the poopier the glasses get.

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Definitely looking forward to VIR. My favorite track with my favorite two classes. The only real low point for me track wise is COTA which feels to sterile to me, but I've never been fortunate to attend there so that could just be my perception.

I understand where the sterile mentality comes from. Go to the track. On screen there's little feeling of the cars actually going anywhere. In person, seeing the cars come down the straight, UP the hill, back and forth through the esses, around the tower...it makes your head and your eyes move. They start to look more like race cars.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

The point is that everyone looks at the past through rose colored glasses. The good old days, at the time, were just the days. IMSA's much loved, much mourned GTP class was technically a BOP'd class. Sure they didn't call it BOP back then, but it was power to weight based and there were adjustments in the middle of competition years.

When was the last real open class sports car formula started, when did it end, and why did it end?

Please don't use the "any rules are BoP" argument, it's one of the stupidest and most fallacious things people do. You had carbon chassis 962's making 50% more downforce than others with the exact same minimum weight, fuel capacity, engine limits, etc., a stock block OHV powered car having a different minimum weight doesn't make it the same as a field of several loosely related spec cars where even cars with the exact same chassis and engine can have different weight and air restrictors for no pre-established reason.

Cadillacs won't win every race unless IMSA thinks they can get away with making it so or they get incredibly lucky on strategy, the ORECAs will last 3 hours just fine.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

What do you look forward to for the rest of the season now? I have the two all GT races at Lime Rock and VIR marked down for sure. I think Porsche and Risi Ferrari will get victories soon as well. BMW..err not so sure. I think Turner BMW winning in GTD is more likely at this point.

Speaking of GTD. I feel that we will see very very few teams win 2 races or more this year. Could see a different team or make win each race.

Cadillac could win every prototype race in 2017. Anybody would be willing to bet that? If they do then they deserve it. Its not BoP. That is the best car and the best teams (AXR, WTR) are running it.

I'm looking forward to every single race for the rest of the year.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Imsa is a compromise. In exchange for a "stable" series you get bop. At least with the current management. A bar lowered for some, raised for others. There's no denying it's second rate on a global scale though.



I've heard it said the "Golden Days" are typically the period of time that one first started watching a series. It makes sense, because that's when you know the least about what goes on behind the scenes. The more I learn about what's going on behind the scenes today, the poopier the glasses get.



I understand where the sterile mentality comes from. Go to the track. On screen there's little feeling of the cars actually going anywhere. In person, seeing the cars come down the straight, UP the hill, back and forth through the esses, around the tower...it makes your head and your eyes move. They start to look more like race cars.

This bolded is exactly right. You know what all the "good old days" didn't have? Internet, social media, constant reporting on the politics and machinations of the sanctioning bodies.

And with that came forums to discuss and learn even more about each era and the inner workings of the current series. (Sometimes even ii;nda information! ) If you're a casual fan watching racing you come across on tv or go to a track to watch, you just see fast, sexy, cool cars putting on mostly close racing. It's not until you start searching the internet for information on your new love that you come across the information of how the close GTLM race you just fell in love with at the track was pretty sketchy because the BMW beat the Ford, Vette, Ferrari and Porsche at the race you were at mostly because they were given bop breaks pre race and not because they were the best car and team and drivers that day. You had no idea as a casual fan or at the track. Your "golden age" just ended with more information. BTW, this has been called a "golden age" of GT racing, bop and all.... I remember as a kid seeing Craig T. Nelson competing for wins in WSC and didn't have any reason to question the validity. I didn't look up the series online then (couldn't, right?, was too long ago?) I haven't looked up the news of that time period since, because it doesn't matter. The enjoyment I saw is what it is. If that happened now, I'm sure I'd find the information that his car had massive advantages over other cars of the time, or something and it wouldn't be as pure as it was for the child-me.

Think about it, what in life do we find more information on that doesn't take the shine off of it? Has there ever been any public figure that we haven't ended up learning was flawed after thinking of them as heroes after learning more information? Is there anything in life that added context doesn't complicate our feelings on it? Kids watching growing up in the late 90's watched the home run races and records and thought it was heroic and great. Added information found out after watching these incredible feats changed that, didn't it? We all learn and discuss the ramifications of the inner workings of the sanctioning bodies of these series we fell in love with when it was all more simple to us. And as we do, it taints things that without knowing it wouldn't be tainted.

It's great to learn more, but it has a cost too.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

This bolded is exactly right. You know what all the "good old days" didn't have? Internet, social media, constant reporting on the politics and machinations of the sanctioning bodies...



...It's great to learn more, but it has a cost too.

Very well put.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Imsa is a compromise. In exchange for a "stable" series you get bop. At least with the current management. A bar lowered for some, raised for others. There's no denying it's second rate on a global scale though.

I would argue that GTLM > GTE-Pro (just look at the Le Mans results last year) and GTD > GTE-Am.

Also, The WEC is definitely not feeling very first rate heading into the season this year. We have 5 P1's, a spec P2 class, and 5 GTE-Am's

[kevlow]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I would argue that GTLM > GTE-Pro (just look at the Le Mans results last year) and GTD > GTE-Am.

Also, The WEC is definitely not feeling very first rate heading into the season this year. We have 5 P1's, a spec P2 class, and 5 GTE-Am's

Those are very good points.

[Matt]

http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi..._entrylist.pdf

TRG is back! So much for those tires being the issue!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Matt

http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi..._entrylist.pdf

TRG is back! So much for those tires being the issue!

Playing Advocatus Buckleri here, but I guess that could be a one/off, with TRG based in California and all, they might have made some commitments to entertain backers and partners at LB. Will be interesting to see if they turn up for any of the non-Cali rounds.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Playing Advocatus Buckleri here, but I guess that could be a one/off, with TRG based in California and all, they might have made some commitments to entertain backers and partners at LB. Will be interesting to see if they turn up for any of the non-Cali rounds.

Possibly, but they do have a presence in PWC, which is also at LB.

Chris

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Matt

http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi..._entrylist.pdf

TRG is back! So much for those tires being the issue!

..and back despite TRG not being a 'premium' full season entrant. Maybe a few cases of wine found their way over to the IMSA offices after Sebring.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Matt

http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi..._entrylist.pdf

TRG is back! So much for those tires being the issue!

You're probably right, but Conti did say they'd bring better tyres to Sebring, and I don't recall many problem (certainly not as many as Daytona). So if Kevin said he'd return when the tyres improved, and now they've improved...

[MaskedRacer]

You can see with the LB entries the full season driver duos now. Which GTD driver teams do you think would not be out of place on the GTLM grid?

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

You're probably right, but Conti did say they'd bring better tyres to Sebring, and I don't recall many problem (certainly not as many as Daytona). So if Kevin said he'd return when the tyres improved, and now they've improved...

But we won't know if Conti's tires have improved until we have extremely cold weather, and semi-wet track conditions at Daytona.

Chris

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

You can see with the LB entries the full season driver duos now. Which GTD driver teams do you think would not be out of place on the GTLM grid?

Short answer is more than you think, long answer:

Both Lexi
Both Acuras
Paul Miller Audi
Stevenson Audi
SunEnergy1 Merc
TRG Porsche

[chernaudi]

Latest BOP for Long Beach, and almost every car sees air restrictor or fuel capacity changes:

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/13921...long-beach-bop

[TzeiTzei]

Let the games begin