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Old 10 Apr 2013, 16:00 (Ref:3232054)   #1
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Suspension Tech War?

Or: What the FRIC are they up to now?

Self-leveling suspension is the new blown diffuser. Or is it?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106621
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Old 10 Apr 2013, 17:37 (Ref:3232091)   #2
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luke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridluke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Once the teams get it working it will be banned.
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Old 10 Apr 2013, 17:49 (Ref:3232100)   #3
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Or: What the FRIC are they up to now?
FRIC this!
best F1 acronym ever!
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Old 10 Apr 2013, 18:52 (Ref:3232140)   #4
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I am not trying to argue it should be banded, but I am curious as to the wording around active suspension. I am curious if anyone is trying to build a hydraulic based logic system (computer) along with hydro and/or mechanical sensors. For example, adjustments front/rear or to each corner based upon multidimensional g-loading.

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Old 10 Apr 2013, 19:52 (Ref:3232167)   #5
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Once the teams get it working it will be banned.
When Ferrari CAN'T get theirs working it will be banned.
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Old 10 Apr 2013, 19:57 (Ref:3232169)   #6
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Was it really just 58 years ago that Citroen introduced the concept to roadcars?
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Old 10 Apr 2013, 20:12 (Ref:3232173)   #7
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Was it really just 58 years ago that Citroen introduced the concept to roadcars?
I'm thinking Austin 1100 of the 60s! Hydrolastic suspension connected front to rear, unlike the Metro of the 80s which was left to right.
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Old 11 Apr 2013, 00:49 (Ref:3232252)   #8
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Was it really just 58 years ago that Citroen introduced the concept to roadcars?
Yep - but that's racing, some solutions simply aren't permitted under the rules and also of course, sometimes they simply don't work as well on a race car. Interesting that it's taken this long for teams to develop FRIC (GREAT acronym - can see it being used on tee shirts) after they lost active systems. Makes me think that it's a long way from a simple exercise.

On the Citroen front, the dealer in Oxford had a well known F1 team come in and buy essentially most of the components from the hydropneumatic system from the parts department during the active years. Only did it once so presumably looking for ideas or components that could be remade lighter etc. There really is nothing completely new is there?
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Old 11 Apr 2013, 03:03 (Ref:3232279)   #9
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Yep - but that's racing, some solutions simply aren't permitted under the rules and also of course, sometimes they simply don't work as well on a race car. Interesting that it's taken this long for teams to develop FRIC (GREAT acronym - can see it being used on tee shirts) after they lost active systems. Makes me think that it's a long way from a simple exercise.

On the Citroen front, the dealer in Oxford had a well known F1 team come in and buy essentially most of the components from the hydropneumatic system from the parts department during the active years. Only did it once so presumably looking for ideas or components that could be remade lighter etc. There really is nothing completely new is there?
Proof that F1 teams have too much money. From my experience, it would have been cheaper to buy the whole car and strip out the suspension!
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Old 11 Apr 2013, 11:39 (Ref:3232463)   #10
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Proof that F1 teams have too much money. From my experience, it would have been cheaper to buy the whole car and strip out the suspension!
Nope. Factor in the time of a F1 engineer, and it's way cheaper to buy the bits. Then the cost of disposing of the bits you don't want...

Everyone forgets manpower...
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Old 13 Apr 2013, 10:32 (Ref:3233364)   #11
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luke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridluke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Reason it has taken so long is because it has to be completely passive otherwise it is banned, look at Lotus's trial a couple of years back based upon a reaction force to braking. It was deemed to be active suspension.
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Old 13 Apr 2013, 10:49 (Ref:3233372)   #12
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You should read Racecar Engineering (I would say that of course) but we detailed the system last year - most of the top teams are running a similar design - even the 2013 Force India is designed to be fitted with hydraulically interlinked suspension like this.

So no suspension war because everyone at the front already has it.
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Old 13 Apr 2013, 13:54 (Ref:3233456)   #13
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Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
I'm thinking Austin 1100 of the 60s! Hydrolastic suspension connected front to rear, unlike the Metro of the 80s which was left to right.
[Pedant alert!] The Metro had hydragas, which was not interconnected.[/Pedant alert]

The purpose of interconnection a la Citroen and Hydrolastic was to separate pitch stiffness from bounce stiffness. Rather like anti-roll bars separate roll stiffness from bounce stiffness. I'm not quite sure what F1 is trying to achieve with FRIC as the holy grail is constant ride height.

PS. Just remembered, it was more than 58 years ago that Citroen introduced interconnected suspension. The 2CV had a big spring under each sill to do the same job, and I think that was introduced in 1939 or thereabouts.
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Old 14 Apr 2013, 00:29 (Ref:3233686)   #14
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Oh look, another technology for the cavemen at the FIA to ban. If they banned Lotus' suspension last year (which they also at first allowed), which seems even simpler than this, there's no way they'll allow this simple, harmless (safer even, since it keeps the car stable through basic physics and not computer control) suspension technology to remain.
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Old 15 Apr 2013, 00:20 (Ref:3234297)   #15
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PS. Just remembered, it was more than 58 years ago that Citroen introduced interconnected suspension. The 2CV had a big spring under each sill to do the same job, and I think that was introduced in 1939 or thereabouts.
There ain't nothing new, but you can make very expensive versions of the same thing. It's not like anyone would struggle to make a fully functional active suspension system for next years cars, if it were allowed now. But you might find that some of the lower teams couldn't afford them, or some of the other stuff that F1 has thrown away because all it was doing was adding to costs, but not to the sport.
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Old 18 Apr 2013, 04:30 (Ref:3236032)   #16
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..... or some of the other stuff that F1 has thrown away because all it was doing was adding to costs, but not to the sport.
Sounds like what most of the technical emphasis on a modern F1 car does.
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