V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by brown dog

ah okay, then he thinks the postioning of the extra weight (fuel) was causing handling issues, rather than fuel sloshing around as has been suggested. Thats plausible I suppose. It will be interesting to see how everyone performs at round 2, now that there has been a bit of time to sort through some of the issues.

Correct.

Yes lets hope we can see some good racing, the teams should be better prepared this time around.

[Goat Boy]

Yes extra fuel weight causes extra wear on rear tyres if that's where your tank is. Or all tyres if you're an F1 car...

Wonder how the "middle" tank will affect V8SC COT handling?

[Goat Boy]

Turns out that the whole bonnet scoop thing is not quite as it was reported by Speedstuff.

It's just that they found that the airflow over the engine worked better when they cut a couple of small vents at the rear of the bonnet. So no scoops I'm afraid, just a couple of grated vents on the rear of the bonnet that you won't even see all that easily. The rest was kind of guesswork by Speedstuff I think (with the best of intentions no doubt)

[lshnz]

[QUOTE=Jerico;3046368]The extra fuel load was a porblem and it was alluded to in an interview by Johnny after the first race, he did state that the extra fuel load caused issues handling wise.

So does that mean when the endurance races come round the cars will be handling rather ugly with full tanks and hurting the tyres until the burn the fuel off?

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Yes extra fuel weight causes extra wear on rear tyres if that's where your tank is. Or all tyres if you're an F1 car...

Wonder how the "middle" tank will affect V8SC COT handling?

No where near as much as they are being engineered for the handling.

If it wasn't a spec class it could be considered a pretty big design error on behalf of the STs. But as they are all the same it won't matter once they get the weights sorted.

So, in the endurance race it could become interesting when the end comes re tyres etc. Depending how they wear. Johnny macs issue wasn't tyre wear. It was the weight of the fuel hanging over behind the back axle.

[Jerico]

[QUOTE=lshnz;3046434]

Originally Posted by Jerico

The extra fuel load was a porblem and it was alluded to in an interview by Johnny after the first race, he did state that the extra fuel load caused issues handling wise.

So does that mean when the endurance races come round the cars will be handling rather ugly with full tanks and hurting the tyres until the burn the fuel off?

All the cars will be running a similar fuel load, so there wont be a vast difference in car preformance across the field. Endurance races are all about looking after the car and tyres etc. You don't win the race on the first corner, but some drivers think you do.

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

So, in the endurance race it could become interesting when the end comes re tyres etc. Depending how they wear. Johnny macs issue wasn't tyre wear. It was the weight of the fuel hanging over behind the back axle.

A much more likely scenario. Better to have any "ballast" as close to the centre of gravity as possible.Having a fuel tank out the back is not ideal as far as handling goes, but everyone is in the same boat so no difference for anyone. Polar moment of inertia, that sort of thing.

JM probably could have solved that issue by hanging around the Big Ben pies tent a bit longer, driver is quite close to COG!

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Yes extra fuel weight causes extra wear on rear tyres if that's where your tank is. Or all tyres if you're an F1 car...

It's also that having a large amount of mass away from your COG causes an increase in yaw moment and a decrease in yaw inertia. If you need to have mass the best place is in the centre.

[Jerico]

As all you self appointed structural engineers continue to bag and talk about what a handling improvement it would be, if the ST's fuel cell was positioned in the center of the car and not in the rear.

When the current SC drivers first drove the car, they all commented very strongly about what a beautiful handling car it was compared to the current SC. They all went as far as to say that the ST was a far better balanced car than the current SC and they continue to say this today. ( interesting isn't it knockers )

We all know that tyre wear is a big part of motor racing and drivers who conserve tyres are always well placed by the end of the race. I used to crew on an NZV8 for many years and I know how bad the tyre wear was on the current NZV8, it was terrible, because the tyres were to small to do the job satisfactory.

Some talk of the tyre wear of an ST compared to a SC, well how many times do you hear about SC tyres and brakes going off during a race, many times and the fuel load in an SC is in the center of the car and not in the rear as it used to be. It is not often mentioned, but the ST has bigger tyres and larger brakes than the current SC, so in this department the ST is superior.

It hasn't been completely proven that placing the fuel cell in the center of the car improves the cars handling, over a rear mounted fuel cell. I believe SC moved the fuel cell solely for safety reason and not handling, but then I could be wrong. But if I am wrong, I will never feel alone on this site as many of you on this site have been wrong time and time again, but fail to admit it.

I note that Nascar will be running a new model soon and gueass what the fuel cell is still located in the rear of the car, funny that, but they obviously haven't had the assistance of the many so called design engineers and experts from this site.

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by Jerico

As all you self appointed structural engineers continue to bag and talk about what a handling improvement it would be, if the ST's fuel cell was positioned in the center of the car and not in the rear.

When the current SC drivers first drove the car, they all commented very strongly about what a beautiful handling car it was compared to the current SC. They all went as far as to say that the ST was a far better balanced car than the current SC and they continue to say this today. ( interesting isn't it knockers )

structural engineers? I thought they were the guys who designed buildings and bridges? And a bit rich taking a poke at us about discussing placement of the fuel tank, and its relative merits, when it was actually JM who brought that one up, using the placement of extra weight in his fuel tank as the reason for his poor performance at the first round.Perhaps you should get on the phone to him and put him straight about that one, and sort his car out while you are at it, because they obviously don't know what they are doing?

But I see you used to crew on an NZV8, so I am sure you know more than any of us here anyway.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by brown dog

structural engineers? I thought they were the guys who designed buildings and bridges? And a bit rich taking a poke at us about discussing placement of the fuel tank, and its relative merits, when it was actually JM who brought that one up, using the placement of extra weight in his fuel tank as the reason for his poor performance at the first round.Perhaps you should get on the phone to him and put him straight about that one, and sort his car out while you are at it, because they obviously don't know what they are doing?

But I see you used to crew on an NZV8, so I am sure you know more than any of us here anyway.

Don't throw all your toys out of the cot, you know as well as I do that everybody on this site is guilty of pushing thier point and you are as guilty as what you preach.

What a load of rubbish about me knowing more than anyone else on this site, because I had crewed on an NZV8 team. I only said this back up my point about rubber and thats all. Then you attack me and insult me, I am not discussing this matter any further with you, as I will not bring myself down to that level of posting.

[Jerico]

A recent poster made a statement that a structual engineer, is a person who designs buildings and bridges. Well he is perfectly correct in what he is saying, but structual engineering also has a big part to play in the motor industry.
How do I know this, well I am a structual engineer in the motor industry and I have been doing this work for over the past twenty five years.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Jerico

A recent poster made a statement that a structual engineer, is a person who designs buildings and bridges. Well he is perfectly correct in what he is saying, but structual engineering also has a big part to play in the motor industry.
How do I know this, well I am a structual engineer in the motor industry and I have been doing this work for over the past twenty five years.

Well said!

A structural engineer analyses structures, of which there are many in a car. Finite element analysis is a structural thing, and guess what they use to design road and race cars as well as buildings and bridges?

Whereas a civil engineer (like me designs) roads and drains, although I would have loved to have designed a race track!

[NZSTfan]

me too GB! i'm a civil engineer (predominantly roading) and i too would love to design a race track one day.

I have even planned out the "Henderson 400" should Puke not deliver the goods for the Supercars!!! (this is a joke by the way before everyone gets too serious)

My street circuit cruises around the streets of west auckland (chur!) and has massive elevation change too.

It encompasses Great North Road, into Edmonton Road, then onto Te Atatu Road and back onto Great North. It has 16 turns in total (cor that could be enough for an NZF1 street race hahaha), and has an epic hairpin and a wicked plunge downhill into the mean right-hander that takes you on to Edmonton. Then its back up the hill with a few corners and then hard on the brakes for the right hander at Te Atatu. Then we have an awesome wide long straight with two decent corners where speeds will be similar to conrod straight at Bathurst! (jokes) and then over the start finish line into Turn one which is a hairpin with a downhill exit, but very wide too so hopefully not much bunching of cars during the start.

If the "Hendo 4 Hundy" goes ahead then we will need to get permission from the thousand or so houses that sit right on the track....but hey, they are all westies like me and will kill to have Supercars go right past there house!!!

hehehe

[Biggy G]

Cool!

http://www.speedstuff.co.nz/alex-dav...t-for-enduros/

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

Cool!

http://www.speedstuff.co.nz/alex-dav...t-for-enduros/

Excellent, I had heard there were some big names lining up for the enduros. I definitely will be going to HD at least, rain or shine!

[NZSTfan]

Thats excellent news with regards to Alex. A great achievement for Andy Knights team for sure.

Just wonder how many other big names we'll see over the coming weeks/months for the enduros.

I know Frosty has been mentioned more than once, and maybe he will team up with JM at JMR.

Sad to hear that Daniel Jilesen is no longer partnering with Scott McLoughlin though, i was looking forward to that combo

[JC Ohope]

Pictures of the V8ST vents



Hardly a bonnet 'scoop' but I guess someone got their terms confused

The V8 SuperTourers will add bonnet vents to each car for Round 2 of the V8 SuperTourers at Ruapuna.

After some excessive engine temperatures were recorded in the opening round, category officials have implemented the vents, plus other initiatives, to reduce the heat under the bonnets of the new race cars.
The vents have been designed to let hot air trapped under the bonnet escape at a low pressure point.

Other changes include raising the angle of the Adrad radiator by a further 10 degrees and inserting a wing-style air deflector across the the throat of the intake for the radiator.
The temperature under the hood of a SuperTourers is not meant to exceed 110 degrees. In the opening event at Hampton Downs, some cars reached that point. The changes are expected to drop the engine by 10 degrees.
“We want to reduce the under bonnet temperatures, but we were never in danger of boiling over,” category administrator Mark Petch told Speedcafe.com.

“We can run at 110 no problem, and that is the maximum temperature. Most were at 103, but we want to run them in the 90s, so we are changing things around to get some of the heat out from under the bonnet.

“It’s a nice looking, shaped thing, and its another thing that sets us apart from V8 Supercars.”

Another technical change before Round 2 will be the use of composite bonnets and rear guards across all cars in the field. At Hampton Downs, only the Fords had access to the lighter components.

Round 2 of the V8 SuperTourers Championship will be held over the Easter weekend at Ruapuna International Raceway in Christchurch.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by JC Ohope

Pictures of the V8ST vents



Hardly a bonnet 'scoop' but I guess someone got their terms confused

Yeah that's what I said earlier, Speedcafe got the wrong end of the stick a bit I think.

The bonnet vents look good anyway, and that point about the Holdens now having the composite panels should answer some of the posters' questions about why there was weight disparity at Hampton Downs.

[peckstar]

ok i get that they need vents because they are running too hot, but why are they running too hot?

[MacrosNZ]

Engine moved back, flat firewall, smaller transmission tunnel...

[NZSTfan]

Does that fact they run on Octane98 pump fuel make a difference too? Say compared to E85??....just asking

[Bus Driver]

Been hearing some interesting stories about some more teathing issues which will be fixed as more testing has been completed. Stories like

1. The test car was fitted with a radiator manufactured in the USA, the one fitted to the cars was made in China and (a) does not dissipate heat as efficently and (b) is more fragile and has been subject to cracking and other structural type issues

2. Because of the engine and drive line angle the input shaft bearing in the gearbox is suffering fron heat related damage

3. Both the gearbox and differential oil coolers are flat mounted under the car and are getting insufficent airflow to work efficiently and both the diff and the gearbox are running close to critical temperatures

4. The dry sump tank is mounted inside the drivers compartment where is is not subject to airflow and it is raising cabin temperatures to the point where they are just about unbearable

Now I accept that these are the types of problems that can occur when any new car is developed and I hope that they are all sorted before Ruapuna and that we can see the true potential of these exciting cars on display

[on_to_it]

If you are correct, those issues are all quite alarming.

Now I don't have an axe to grind at all here, but wouldn't you think most of those would have surfaced earlier on the prototype? There were 1000's of k's done in testing.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Bus Driver

Been hearing some interesting stories about some more teathing issues which will be fixed as more testing has been completed. Stories like

1. The test car was fitted with a radiator manufactured in the USA, the one fitted to the cars was made in China and (a) does not dissipate heat as efficently and (b) is more fragile and has been subject to cracking and other structural type issues

2. Because of the engine and drive line angle the input shaft bearing in the gearbox is suffering fron heat related damage

3. Both the gearbox and differential oil coolers are flat mounted under the car and are getting insufficent airflow to work efficiently and both the diff and the gearbox are running close to critical temperatures

4. The dry sump tank is mounted inside the drivers compartment where is is not subject to airflow and it is raising cabin temperatures to the point where they are just about unbearable

Now I accept that these are the types of problems that can occur when any new car is developed and I hope that they are all sorted before Ruapuna and that we can see the true potential of these exciting cars on display

Dry sump tank is not inside the car.