IMSA TUSC 2015 Entries, Schedule, and Rumors

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

That's sort of like saying it's fine if you get Ebola because a lot of people have Ebola.

People know that AsLMS and ELMS are second-tier feeder series which can barely fill their schedules or their grids--the series where racers go until they can get it together to move up to the big time.

Clearly none of us want TUSC to be a second-rate feeder series. We want it to rival WEC, not be subjugated to WEC. Implying that its okay if TUSC uses a lame spec top class because there are other lame things in the world is not sound logically nor satisfying emotionally to fans, and likely will not be profitable financially.

After all ALMS went broke, but so did Rolex. In fact, without NASCAR paying the bills, Rolex wouldn't have lasted halfway through the decade.

In a "Cars are the Stars" world, saying the cars are as good as any aging, washed-up, no-talent B-movie extras in any other film market is saying exactly what's up. And it is very ugly.

Oh, I don't dispute that fact, and I honestly think we should make the Super P2's somewhere around LMP1-L speed.

I was merely correcting is statement saying that the IMSA series would be the only ones with the top prototype class being contested between P2 machinery.

[Matt]

Sidenote:

What's the possibility of some privateer team that shows a whole bunch about rotary motors showing up with say, an Oak chassis with a three rotor and being allowed to compete?

Or are we gonna have a list of "approved engines" come out.

[carbsmith]

If you haven't caught on, it's carbon tub DP so yes the engines will be approved (and then their performance will have the crap balanced out of it)

GTLM is probably the most expensive class to win in as it is. Back when Dyson went to Grand Am he said GTS was more expensive than privateer P900, theoretically speaking the same could apply to GTE/P1-L if the latter had a large enough market. But that would probably require ELMS to run it too.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Matt

Sidenote:

What's the possibility of some privateer team that shows a whole bunch about rotary motors showing up with say, an Oak chassis with a three rotor and being allowed to compete?

Or are we gonna have a list of "approved engines" come out.

I doubt there will be approved engines, but the number will be naturally restricted by who wants to provide support for the engines. I see Ford, GM, Honda and Mazda as all being players in the 2017 P class, but not sure if anybody else wants to prep one. Rahal put feelers out for running a DP this year, so maybe BMW is considering a return.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The ALMS path led to near bankruptcy and a sell-out to NASCAR.

ALMS was struggling hard after 2009. Not enough money for promotion, not enough money for the teams, not enough money for the series to keep going, ultimately.

I want full FIA sports car racing here. I just don't see how it makes financial sense.

Let us keep in mind that ALMS always "allowed" P1. Thing is Muscle Milk was the only real P1 car on the grid, with Dyson occasionally chasing, several laps back.

6 P1s at the last real 12 hours of Sebring. When tusc kicked them out there was more P1 teams than P2 teams because Tucker already quit.

ALMS stubbled more because of the economy than anything else Grand-Am failed along time before that and was propped up, and now we are following the grand-am plan that failed with a strong economy. There is no hope.

[blankfile]

What is interesting is that in what we've seen any gasoline engine from imsa side will be BOPed for le mans. So what if a rotary engine shows up

[schmidder]

Originally Posted by blankfile

What is interesting is that in what we've seen any gasoline engine from imsa side will be BOPed for le mans. So what if a rotary engine shows up

Is Mazda hinting at this? Just wondering where this is coming from..

[blankfile]

nah just a thought if they can't come with diesel

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Gulf

6 P1s at the last real 12 hours of Sebring. When tusc kicked them out there was more P1 teams than P2 teams because Tucker already quit.

Six P1s--how many competitive, and how many Audi? rebellion, MuscleMilk, Dyson (not competitive) and Audi ...

look we were all there. Trying to make 2012-2013 ALMS seem like P1 heaven is simply inaccurate. We had at best four--Dyson and Rent-a-Dyson, fighting to stay ahead of PC, Rebellion (for part of a season) and MMilk up front.

[/QUOTE]ALMS stubbled more because of the economy than anything else Grand-Am failed along time before that and was propped up, and now we are following the grand-am plan that failed with a strong economy. There is no hope.[/QUOTE] i think a lot of people are glossing over some of the flaws of ALMS ... nostalgia will do that.

Back then, ALMS had the best racing but too small a budget. It had almost no PR budget when it was peaking (2006-2008) and its TV product was an embarrassment, mostly infomercials and coverage of spec classes to get the cash, and bad cuts which ruined any hope fo following the races.

Teams weren't getting enough money from purses or sponsors, and sponsors weren't getting enough RoI from the lame TV product. Some people forget, but before ALMS got kicked off Speed-TV (or rather, offered only taped races at ridiculous hours) Grand Am, specifically the Rolex series, had better ratings than ALMS.

I don't know all the inside stuff, but from what little i have learned, ALMS was undercapitalized and Dr. Panoz was not willing to pump in a few million to pump up the PR, even if it might have paid off over time. Panoz wanted to build cars more than he wanted to build the series.

Yes, the failing economy crippled the series, but there was more to it than that. ILMC/WEC looked much better for the bigger Euro teams, ALMS wasn't willing to spend more to grow more, and factory P1 teams needed a Euro program anyway (LMS, ELMS) so ALMS just didn't have much to offer.

Matt, I wholly agree TUSC should run "Super-P2" with speed similar to P1-L, but I think TUSC's main concern is making money from the series, and anything which increases costs without directly and immediately increasing TV viewership probably doesn't appeal.

I think ultimately TUSC is counting on the "Only show in town" concept and sadly, it seems to be working. if they can be just good enough, people will watch just because WEC and ELMS race so rarely and are so hard to see.

If FIA races could be easily watched on TV and on demand in North America, TUSC would find itself really hurting.

[Fogelhund]

The ALMS faltered not because of the economy, rather poor management.. you know basically the same management in charge of TUSC.

A good economy hid the reality, and as the saying goes, when the tide goes out, you will see who isn't wearing pants.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Six P1s--how many competitive, and how many Audi? rebellion, MuscleMilk, Dyson (not competitive) and Audi ...

They were not performance balanced spec cars not everyone is going to be competitive, Thats proper racing.

[Matt]

Er, the ACO tries to balance the P1 cars all the time...

[Coach Ep]

We might see the new and updated HPD coupe back on track before the end of this year (though I'm not betting on it...):

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/11478...m-for-its-lmp2

If it does materialize I expect Starworks to run it (as long as HPD is paying for it).

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Matt

Er, the ACO tries to balance the P1 cars all the time...

Can you tell me how the ACO tried to balance Audi and Dyson? It never happened.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Matt

Er, the ACO tries to balance the P1 cars all the time...

If 'all the time' is once-a-year (in P1-H), and even then in somewhat minor fashion, then okay. Your precious US-Protos get bopped after every couple of rounds on results+politics based lottery, and dragged to IMSA wind tunnel immediately as someone makes tiny modification to aero or engine or whatever.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Can you tell me how the ACO tried to balance Audi and Dyson? It never happened.

I seem to remember lots and lots of "Lex Dysons", with them being given bigger restrictors and lower weight to keep them somewhat in the hunt.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I seem to remember lots and lots of "Lex Dysons", with them being given bigger restrictors to keep them somewhat in the hunt.

Dyson got plenty of cheap-ass restrictor breaks and stuff (mainly with the excuse of them running on biobutanol) particularly against Pickett in their championship year, but against the factory cars never anything substantial, on par with ACO's uneffective and low profile diesel-petrol divide. Had it been under NASCAR regime Audi and Peugeot would have received 200kg weight increase and completely blocked off engine breathing to give some garage project with domestic OEM interests chance for overall win

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Dyson got plenty of cheap-ass restrictor breaks and stuff (mainly with the excuse of them running on biobutanol) particularly against Pickett in their championship year, but against the factory cars never anything substantial, on par with ACO's uneffective and low profile diesel-petrol divide. Had it been under NASCAR regime Audi and Peugeot would have received 200kg weight increase and completely blocked off engine breathing to give some garage project with domestic OEM interests chance for overall win

Weren't the petrol LMP1s in ALMS allowed to race at 860kg or something thereabouts at some point, with the Diesels at 915kg? That seems like a pretty hefty break to me.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Weren't the petrol LMP1s in ALMS allowed to race at 860kg or something thereabouts at some point, with the Diesels at 915kg? That seems like a pretty hefty break to me.

(emphasis by me)

And were these ALMS BoPs administered by the ACO?

[BullMan]

I bet Starworks will step up to get paid by Honda to run their P2 car. They did it last year with their worthless DP engine.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

(emphasis by me)

And were these ALMS BoPs administered by the ACO?

Article 4, pg.11

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2010LMP12.pdf






L.P.

[Ephaeton]

Thanks HORNDAWG. Clearly the baseline Diesel-Petrol P1 bop was administered by the ACO, by virtue of them publishing the regulations.

Now I wonder whether these "Lex Dyson"s were administered by the ACO as well, or by the ALMS.

I wasn't aware of a constant ACO-bop in P1 (which Matt implied).
I had, so far, thought, that these "all the time" BoP adjustments were being made by ALMS, not ACO.

Is this incorrect?

[Deleted]

No Matt is talking nonsense. The only real equivalency there was in ACO P1 was the diesel-petrol stuff (which clearly always favored diesels), the ALMS model-specific-bop between their own cars was IMSA's. But even that was light and less restrictive compared to what there is now

[BrentJackson]

Originally Posted by BullMan

I bet Starworks will step up to get paid by Honda to run their P2 car. They did it last year with their worthless DP engine.

If Honda's willing to cover the bill, I'm sure Peter Baron and his boys would step up to the plate, too. But Honda's got a big enough job making the chassis work and Indycar is gonna be a rather bigger commitment in 2015 than it was before. I think the ARX-04b, as sad as it is, is the first casualty of the ridiculous P2 rules. I wouldn't expect it to ever race again.

[carbsmith]

ALMS never BoP'd per car in P1, only per format. Now maybe occasionally there was only one car running that layout, but that's the way the game has been played forever.

Actually most of the ALMS restrictor breaks were framed as being for running E85 fuel, something absent in Europe and thus the ACO rules.