FFord or V8 Utes??

[GtiMagic]

So, a driver has an ambition - albeit not that original - to race in V8 Supercars.

The story in this months Motorsport News (yes, all you takers of the freebie weekly version should go and spend a few bucks on the monthly) that talks about V8 Utes, how they have cleaned up the on track biff and how it is now a legitimate step in the path to V8 Supercars.

They did an interview with Damien White who has made the step from utes to DVS and asked him if he thought FFord or utes was a better option for a driver to take.

In his response he talks of the commercial benefits of utes versus FFrod which makes a lot of sense.

I still believe though that FFord has to teach you more about driving a race car.

White, Denyer, Gary McDonald, Luff, Zukanovic all progressed through utes and at the next race Elsegood will make the step up, so it suggests that some handy drivers are coming from that form of racing.

There is however some genuine championship contenders in the V8 main series that once raced at the front of FFord, so it can't be written off.

Maybe times have changed and the open wheeler format aint what it used to be. Maybe the V8 Ford v Holden stranglehold on our sport is starting to dominate in the supporting cast also.

Thoughts people?

[Chucky]

Well, I guess you need skills in controlling an overweight car with more power than grip and no brakes. So V8Utes does look like a good option!

But seriously, the lack of argey bargey and politeness in the Ute ranks has turned it into a shadow of it's former self. It was invented for entertainment purposes and it served that well.

Utes taking themselves seriously just doesn't work, I'm afraid.

[Pro Racer]

i have to agree with you the entertainment of utes argy bargy was great it has gone abit soft now, but they are looking to be a decent stepping stone.

[spectator22]

Interesting subject, and interesting story in monthly MN (I agree, well worth the few $). I still believe the "real" race car experience in Formula Ford must be more beneficial for a young driver in the long run, though the "commercial" benefits of Utes is a good point. PS: V interesting chats with Skaife and Hewson in same MN

[WebberForWDC]

Certainly you wouldn't expect people to be heading off to race in the F3 Euroseries to become a Formula 1 megastar, with two seasons in a V8 Holden Ute under their belts.

Surely the commericial benifits of V8 Utes can't be that great. A whole season at the front of either class would require great skill - so they are both difficult, but a whole season at the front of the F Ford field would be more of a traditional indicator of next Ambrose/Lowndes/Bowe etc surely and thus have credibility outweighing a season at the front of the 'new wave' Ute series.

[MPA]

If going fast is important, I'd say F/ford.

Utes look good, but they're a bit slow.

[00 XR8]

Originally Posted by GtiMagic

White, Denyer, Gary McDonald, Luff, Zukanovic all progressed through utes and at the next race Elsegood will make the step up, so it suggests that some handy drivers are coming from that form of racing.

How many V8Supercar titles do you reckon those six drivers will win?

There is your answer, IMO.

[NAC]

FF first to learn race craft then jump into a big Aussie tin top with the back cut off, giving it a very light bum but lots of fun.

[GtiMagic]

Originally Posted by 00 XR8

How many V8Supercar titles do you reckon those six drivers will win?

There is your answer, IMO.

Fair point - to a degree.

To balance the argument, V8 utes have been running for 6 years. So out of the front runner soFFord over the last 6 yrs, who is going to win a Supercar title?

IMO that helps find your answer...

[00 XR8]

GTi, your first post included the comment “I still believe though that FFord has to teach you more about driving a race car”, so I think that we actually agree on which is the better category to get into V8s through.

Just as a matter of interest though, lets look at those who have come out of FFord in the last 6 years and gone on to better things (i.e. a direct parallel with your ute driver list);

Will Davison
Will Power
Mark Winterbottom
Jamie Whincup
Michael Caruso
Stuart Kostera
Andrew Jones
Marcus Marshall
David Clark
Daniel Elliott
Barton Mawer
Dean Fiore
Bryce Washington
Tim Macrow
Ian Dyk
Tony D’Alberto
Michael Trimble
Adam Macrow
David Reynolds
Tim Slade
Steve Owen
Andrew Thompson
Shane Price
Shannon O’Brien
Clayton Pyne
Mark McNally
James Davison
Nathan Caratti
Aaron Caratti
Brett Hobson
Jason Liefting
John Martin
Lee Holdsworth
Jack Perkins


Out of those 34 guys, 18 have raced in the Development Series and 9 have had (and in most cases still do have) full-time drives in the main series. 3 from that list have already won a Development Series V8Supercar title (and one more is sure to win it this year). 5 currently race in Carrera Cup (which some claim is a step closer to the V8 main series than what the Development Series is). And just to finish it off, as far as I know, 7 from that list are currently racing overseas......... which unfortunately means they have a good chance of one day being in V8s too!

So to answer your question, it isn’t all that difficult to pick a couple of blokes who stand a good chance of winning a V8 title in their careers, when you have got names like Will Davison, Jamie Whincup, Mark Winterbottom, Shane Price and Jack Perkins in there for starters........

[GT3 Cup]

The other point that hasn't been touched on yet is that FFord teaches drivers more about the engineering side of racing. Things like roll bars, spring rates, damper settings etc. are all adjustable on a FFord, whereas as they aren't on a ute.

Even if FFord is more expensive to run, if your serious about making a career out of motorsport then it's definately a better investment.

[GtiMagic]

double post..sorry

[GtiMagic]

You're all talking about becoming a good driver, which I agree FFrod may teach you more, but what White alluded to was that in a commercial sense you need to learn how to get sponsors as much you do how to drive and engineer the car.
Lets face it, alot of the drivers are bringing money (ie sponsors) to the teams their driving for as well as talent, so its a necessary component of a drivers kill set.

So unless you have wealthy parents who can fund you all the way, at some point you have to learn the commercial side of the business which White suggests is more likely in racing a ute than a FFord. Good point IMO

[Bullett]

I think FF is still a great feeder category and a great category to learn in. FF gives the opportunity to step into DVS, F3, FBMW or whatever, however you head into utes and they don't lead anywhere but possibly V8's. The only advantages is it has a V8 and limited grip over the FF which has to be driven by more sliding the car. However utes are definately a good category for the late starter over FF

[pete55]

I'm a firm believer in FF. V8 Utes might be an option later, but a couple of years at least in FF would do you no harm at all.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by pete55

I'm a firm believer in FF. V8 Utes might be an option later, but a couple of years at least in FF would do you no harm at all.

Either category with a decent engineer that can dissect the driver's thoughts and not just lean on the MoTeC data will do the driver well.... maybe...

The 'problem' with production cars (and that what a Ute is..) is that it appears that drivers can push them to 100% of their capability, and are used to the handling characteristics of that type of vehicle at the limit... for those that are good at that will be the ones at the top of the tree.

But put the same blokes (or blokettes) in a car with variably infinite adjustments like a V8Supercar, where weight transfer, shock bump and rebound, roll bar thickness, engine performance, aerodynamic adjustments etc etc are all changeable, and to some extent the driver will likely be all at sea, as expected.

But if you brought a FFordster into the same situation, presuming the driving experience wasnt just as a B driver to a hotshot setting up the car, and the feel will be totally different

Does that mean either solution is better? Depends on the driver more than the circumstance.... if they are good, they will be good in both... if the time is allowed to get up to speed....

.. although the history of drivers with a FFord background looks pretty good

[MPA]

The progression from F/Ford or Ute to V8 Supercar is only half the journey.

The question remains..... After hanging up the helmet would a former V8 Ute or F/Ford driver be a better Race Director?

[kmsport]

Lets keep in mind, also, that the feeder categories are not purely for driver development only - these days. FF is a fantastic starting point for young graduate engineers and budding mechanics keen to start a motor racing career. FF, due to its adjustability, is by far, more appropriate for them.