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Old 14 Mar 2013, 21:37 (Ref:3218543)   #26
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TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Water cooled firewalls coming up??
Or water cooled boots

Good segment with Betty on V8 Insiders
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Old 14 Mar 2013, 22:34 (Ref:3218583)   #27
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Software update for the FBW setup this weekend apparently... didnt help Mr Engel's pace...

Makes sense for AMG to have sent them a 'cooking' engine spec.. with developments to come... no issue of being smashed with the Parity hammer until the rest of the package is sorted...

Lets see what happens next
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Old 14 Mar 2013, 23:02 (Ref:3218601)   #28
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I always thought Erebus was an unfortunate choice of name from a Kiwi perspective.
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 00:17 (Ref:3218625)   #29
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Chappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridChappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Software update for the FBW setup this weekend apparently... didnt help Mr Engel's pace...

Makes sense for AMG to have sent them a 'cooking' engine spec.. with developments to come... no issue of being smashed with the Parity hammer until the rest of the package is sorted...

Lets see what happens next
From the looks Slade threw down a demon lap (over half a second quicker than anything else he'd done).... To be fair, aside from Slade's lap, the rest of the results have been rubbish and suggest that the cars have gone backwards (slowest three cars from combined practice).

Either way you look at it, in three short months the new management have turned one of the quickest teams to one of (if not the) slowest teams in the field....

And I'm not sure I'm with you on the notion that there's tactics at play here.... I've got the feeling that what they've got, is all they've got at this stage.
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 00:23 (Ref:3218628)   #30
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From the looks Slade threw down a demon lap (over half a second quicker than anything else he'd done).... To be fair, aside from Slade's lap, the rest of the results have been rubbish and suggest that the cars have gone backwards (slowest three cars from combined practice).

Either way you look at it, in three short months the new management have turned one of the quickest teams to one of (if not the) slowest teams in the field....

And I'm not sure I'm with you on the notion that there's tactics at play here.... I've got the feeling that what they've got, is all they've got at this stage.
If you read the stories about Erebus at the moment, they are currently limited to remapping engines to improve performance..

There are said to be 4 homologation windows where updates to the engine package can be submitted to V8SA for approval this season.

Each of these should see an improvement in engine output by way of changes to the hardware, not the software, or the trackside tuning.

Nismo is waiting for the next one to get some more power onboard as well.

Engine shops at the F1 level, and that is what the AMG program pretty much is, have a set of upgrades that happen through a season, where hardware is changed.. its scheduled, its planned, its properly resourced, its properly funded...

Quite how they know there will be 4 thinking changes leading to better performance is something hard to fathom...
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 05:26 (Ref:3218701)   #31
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Quite how they know there will be 4 thinking changes leading to better performance is something hard to fathom...
HUH?
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 05:33 (Ref:3218703)   #32
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Is she for real??????
Why not? Erebus was around in other categories before iV8SC
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 05:37 (Ref:3218706)   #33
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Chappelli,

Stop being negative!!

They did not get to the moon on the first try!

"Good Things Take Time"
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 07:41 (Ref:3218732)   #34
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HProject should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHProject should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Think about FPR.

All the money in the world, great driver line-ups, driving the same manufacturer as the champs at SBR, the engineering expertise of Prodrive...

...and it took them three full seasons to become a race-winning force and championship contenders (barring one freak red-flag Philip Island win Craig Lowndes got in 2003).

And I would think that Erebus have even more on their plate currently than the FPR of 2003 did. Give them a year or two.
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 08:04 (Ref:3218736)   #35
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Nissan scored a top-five today in their second ever event... that's a very commendable effort.
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 22:05 (Ref:3219099)   #36
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Chappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridChappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Chappelli,

Stop being negative!!

They did not get to the moon on the first try!

"Good Things Take Time"
Sorry Zakspeed... You're right. If I remember correctly Apollo 1 caught fire on the launch pad killing all 3 crew memebers...

Sorry Zakspeed, trying not to be negative. Just trying to provide a little light and shade to the Erebus conversation....

No doubt Mrs Kilimenko has done a tremendous job bringing a 4th manufacturer kicking and screaming to the category... and that should be applauded.... But for me the sport is about results and I personally find it facisnating that a team as solid and consistant as SBR has gone to the back of the field so quickly.... Sure you can blame it on "new cars", but the fact is that the Kellys are doing better with their new car than they did with their old one... so results out of a new car are doable....

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Think about FPR.

All the money in the world, great driver line-ups, driving the same manufacturer as the champs at SBR, the engineering expertise of Prodrive...

...and it took them three full seasons to become a race-winning force and championship contenders (barring one freak red-flag Philip Island win Craig Lowndes got in 2003).

And I would think that Erebus have even more on their plate currently than the FPR of 2003 did. Give them a year or two.
FPR took over a GSR outfit that was a shambles, the base they were working from was very very low AND there was no such thing as a standard chassis... In 2002 24th in the Championship was all GSR could muster, in 2003 FPR won the third race they started and thurned that 24th in the Championship into a 5th.....

Erebus starts with an owner with significantly more resource (money) than David Richards, the third best team in the game, a chassis at the same level as everyone else and engine that's been regulated to provide a level of parity and two very very good drivers...
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Old 15 Mar 2013, 22:07 (Ref:3219100)   #37
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Nissan scored a top-five today in their second ever event... that's a very commendable effort.
Very commendable..... better than any result from the Kellys in 2012?
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Old 16 Mar 2013, 00:41 (Ref:3219127)   #38
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I think the strength of the Nissan entries is much more noteworthy.

The Kellys seem to have really put a great team together, including some familiar faces now residing at Braeside.
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 07:29 (Ref:3221552)   #39
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Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I wonder if SVG saw the writing on the wall before he jumped ship from SBR...
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 20:24 (Ref:3221899)   #40
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TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Erebus starts with an owner with significantly more resource (money) than David Richards, the third best team in the game, a chassis at the same level as everyone else and engine that's been regulated to provide a level of parity and two very very good drivers...
Building three spare cars.

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Peak power is reportedly comparable to the Ford, Holden and Nissan motors, but reliability and driveability remain areas for significant improvement.
http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/03/21/...-v8-supercars/

Once they sort out the teething problems with the engine, they should be there abouts.

Nothing so far has given me the impression they are going to tool around as back markers for long.

Phone calls to German must be interesting......
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Old 20 Mar 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3221984)   #41
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Phone calls to German must be interesting......
I would love to be in that room listening to whats going on...
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 03:06 (Ref:3222066)   #42
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I would love to be in that room listening to whats going on...
Erebus: The engines are not competitive with the Chevrolet and Ford pushrod V8s.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? Wir sind viel weiter fortgeschritten ist, haben wir eine flache Ebene Kurbel und alle unsere Experten hier in Europa haben daran gearbeitet - wir sind die besten.

Erebus: Don't know what any of that means but we need a broader torque spread and a higher torque curve to get us out of corners better - peak power is OK but torque and flexibility is what we are lacking.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? Hier in Deutschland haben wir alles über Rennmotoren wissen, Mercedes in F1 und Sportwagen gewonnen, rasen wir in GT Serie - wir wissen alles über Macht und nachdem der Motor aufheulen schwer, mehr Macht zu bekommen.

Erebus: Don't know what any of that means but please be reminded that our cars weigh 1500 kilos, have narrow tyres and are only allowed to rev to 7,500 rpm so it is very important to deliver good torque to deal with the weight, go easy on the narrow tyres and work within the rev range. Our opposition are very experienced at this and very good, we will need to work hard to match or beat them.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? Ein Rennwagen, 1500 kg und nur revs wiegt um 7500rpm? Das ist Wahnsinn, wäre es nie in Europa zugelassen werden. Nein, wir sind Mercedes, das beste und wir erbringen müssen Motoren unserem Weg, so dass diejenigen, Kangaroo / Amerikaner den richtigen Weg, Dinge zu tun zu lernen und ändern ihre Regeln zu uns passen.

Sorry, had to be done.
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Old 21 Mar 2013, 10:01 (Ref:3222191)   #43
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ff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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.

Sorry, had to be done.
indeed it does...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk
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Old 22 Mar 2013, 22:45 (Ref:3223028)   #44
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Erebus: The engines are not competitive with the Chevrolet and Ford pushrod V8s.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? .......

Sorry, had to be done.
At least provide a link to an English translation for those of us who have no clue how to speak German. http://translate.google.com.au/
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Old 23 Mar 2013, 22:30 (Ref:3223373)   #45
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ff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridff s conscience should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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At least provide a link to an English translation for those of us who have no clue how to speak German. http://translate.google.com.au/
I think its better to simply say

"We can see that. Are you sure flat plane crank is the way to go. We think it is but we remember the war. Karma is a ***** skippy "
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Old 24 Mar 2013, 06:40 (Ref:3223413)   #46
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Erebus: The engines are not competitive with the Chevrolet and Ford pushrod V8s.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? Wir sind viel weiter fortgeschritten ist, haben wir eine flache Ebene Kurbel und alle unsere Experten hier in Europa haben daran gearbeitet - wir sind die besten.

Erebus: Don't know what any of that means but we need a broader torque spread and a higher torque curve to get us out of corners better - peak power is OK but torque and flexibility is what we are lacking.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? Hier in Deutschland haben wir alles über Rennmotoren wissen, Mercedes in F1 und Sportwagen gewonnen, rasen wir in GT Serie - wir wissen alles über Macht und nachdem der Motor aufheulen schwer, mehr Macht zu bekommen.

Erebus: Don't know what any of that means but please be reminded that our cars weigh 1500 kilos, have narrow tyres and are only allowed to rev to 7,500 rpm so it is very important to deliver good torque to deal with the weight, go easy on the narrow tyres and work within the rev range. Our opposition are very experienced at this and very good, we will need to work hard to match or beat them.

AMG: Wie kann das sein? Ein Rennwagen, 1500 kg und nur revs wiegt um 7500rpm? Das ist Wahnsinn, wäre es nie in Europa zugelassen werden. Nein, wir sind Mercedes, das beste und wir erbringen müssen Motoren unserem Weg, so dass diejenigen, Kangaroo / Amerikaner den richtigen Weg, Dinge zu tun zu lernen und ändern ihre Regeln zu uns passen.

Sorry, had to be done.
PMSL
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 08:59 (Ref:3224223)   #47
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I started driving my Lancia Thema 8.32 again today.

It has a 90 degree crank version of a Ferrari 308QV engine.

Both identical 3.0 litre capacity and virtually identical camshaft profiles/other engine specs.

I also get to drive Ferrari 308 QVs on a regular basis, and am very familiar with them.

The Lancia is significantly more torquey. Incredibly so. Its engine just pulls so cleanly from low rpm around 1800 right through to 7000 or so where it kinda runs out of puff a little, although it will rev through to 7500 usable if you want to.. A 308 QV only gets going around 5000 rpm and only makes real torque/power at 7500 rpm +

Of course, there are myriad of other things to consider, but for me, flat plane crank is the root of Erebus engine deficiency, having had recent occasion to do very relevant back to back test.

I'd love them to get the FP engine going well enough to win though. Good luck to them.
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 14:40 (Ref:3224448)   #48
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I believe I read the merc runs twin throttle bodies vs the trumpet setup of everyone else. I reckon that is a bigger issue than the flat plane crank..
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 22:56 (Ref:3224731)   #49
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Somehow I dont think the AMG-SBR engine people will let this situation stay as it is for too long...

Of interest is the formation of the Erebus Acacdemy Here, with a return to F3, and karts and others...
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 23:15 (Ref:3224740)   #50
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Of course, there are myriad of other things to consider, but for me, flat plane crank is the root of Erebus engine deficiency, having had recent occasion to do very relevant back to back test.
Flat plane crank doesn't seem to make sense in a category with a 7500rpm limit and control gear and diff ratios. And it's not something Mercedes use in their cars either?

Love the sound though!

Last edited by rik; 25 Mar 2013 at 23:28.
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