New stock car series in Holland

[FIRE]

Next season Dutch National Racing Team (DNRT) organisation starts a new stock car series for gentlemen drivers in Holland. There are planned 7 endurance races (around 3 hours, if wanted car can shared by 2 drivers). The car costs around € 50,000 (ex VAT).



Chassis: Nascar type spaceframe
Body: Nascar Late Model
Engine: Corvette LS2 V8 aluminium, 6L, fuel injection
Power: 450 bhp (550 Nm) at 6500 rpm
Weight: 1050 kg
Top speed: Around 330 km/h
Rims: Steel, 10 X 15
Tires: Hoosier slicks 10 x 15
Dampers: Intrax Suspension
Rear axle: Aluminium "Tiger"
Noise: 89db under full power
Dimensions: L 5.50 m, W 2.0 m, H 1.20 m

They expect a lap time at Zandvoort around 1.50m.

More photos

[kelvin88]

Looks great! Iwish i could run one but, unfortunatly, im not a Gentleman! Why are they so expensive though?

[muggle not]

Why only 450 hp. We had 650 hp in our Trans Am series car back in 2000.

I do like the car though and hope the series makes a go of it.

[ss_collins]

Simple answer - whats the point? CAMSO V8 runs next door in Belgium, with similar cars at a huge amount less.

Why on earth do people want to run late model stock cars on road courses? they are rubbish - want good racing on a road course S2000 touring cars - more extreme? DTM

These things keep coming up - this time last year a similar concept was launched by Jochen Mass - what happened to that? Speedcar is only working as some arabs are pouring money in.

I can't see this working

[Matt]

Late model bodies are so badass looking. Those taillamps look SUPER lame though.

Also:

LOL.

@ SS - Stockcars on road courses are too much fun to watch.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Simple answer - whats the point? CAMSO V8 runs next door in Belgium, with similar cars at a huge amount less.

Why on earth do people want to run late model stock cars on road courses? they are rubbish - want good racing on a road course S2000 touring cars - more extreme? DTM

These things keep coming up - this time last year a similar concept was launched by Jochen Mass - what happened to that? Speedcar is only working as some arabs are pouring money in.

I can't see this working

S2000 or DTM is much, much more expensive.

You can't compare this series to Jochen Mass' ASCE or Speedcar. The DNRT events are mainly for the drivers self (club racing) and not for the public or media. They run series for old Volvo 360 to Sakers. They are very succesful (large grids, relative low costs).

Why only 450hp? To keep noise under 89db? To keep costs down? Safety reasons?

[kelvin88]

There is actually no reason these cars can't run with the CAMSOs if they wanted to. (same as the SCSA). I have to say i am a bit miffed they didn't come and ask us first. We could have built them cheaper cars and maybe we could have worked together in some way. I tell you, if everyone in Europe that was trying to start an American stockcar series sat in one room at the same time and worked on it together, it would be awsome.

[HCForums]

I know the concept and I´m pretty sure they will get this going next year. But as said before this is not for the public, it´s club racing for amateurs. And unlike the British club scene people here don´t show up to watch it, coz basically only Zandvoort has it.

I wish they would start a decent real low cost stockcar series that can run the various ovals (or dirt) that we have in The Netherlands and Belgium. Every time we build an oval we decide to trash it up with bangers. IMO bangers should be forbidden and stockcar F1/F2 can be stolen too. Those cars look like bumper cars and the racing is lackluster. Create some low cost series like Late Model, Midgets, Sprint or Street Stock and get them racing. It´s entertaining and the Americans don´t go to their local tracks on Saturdaynight for nothing.

[kelvin88]

Originally Posted by HCForums

I know the concept and I´m pretty sure they will get this going next year. But as said before this is not for the public, it´s club racing for amateurs. And unlike the British club scene people here don´t show up to watch it, coz basically only Zandvoort has it.

I wish they would start a decent real low cost stockcar series that can run the various ovals (or dirt) that we have in The Netherlands and Belgium. Every time we build an oval we decide to trash it up with bangers. IMO bangers should be forbidden and stockcar F1/F2 can be stolen too. Those cars look like bumper cars and the racing is lackluster. Create some low cost series like Late Model, Midgets, Sprint or Street Stock and get them racing. It´s entertaining and the Americans don´t go to their local tracks on Saturdaynight for nothing.

Hello! We are here racing Late Models in Belgium very cheaply thankyou! Feel free to pop by anytime your down! Have a drive about in one if you like! www.camsov8fanzine.piczo.com Tell us where in Holland you would like to see us race and we will see what can be sorted. Back to the matter in hand, it sounds like a good idea. As high performance endurance cars go, its hard to beat a Late Model for price. Does it say how many cars they have or is it just that one at the moment?

[HCForums]

Originally Posted by kelvin88

Hello! We are here racing Late Models in Belgium very cheaply thankyou! Feel free to pop by anytime your down! Have a drive about in one if you like! www.camsov8fanzine.piczo.com Tell us where in Holland you would like to see us race and we will see what can be sorted. Back to the matter in hand, it sounds like a good idea. As high performance endurance cars go, its hard to beat a Late Model for price. Does it say how many cars they have or is it just that one at the moment?

Hey Kelvin, I'm aware of CamsoV8. I think back when it started Michael Vergers even came down to test one.

Although I've never been to Warneton I think its a great facility. Probably the best short track in Europe. Sadly it's a bit too far away from me to visit.

Maybe I should have explained myself a little bit better. It's just that in America they have all sorts of series and it's really quite popular. Then in Holland we have some ovals but only run Stockcar F1/F2 on it and some banger stuff. Yes, I'm aware there are some other series racing on them. But its just not as big as it could be. And I just can't understand bangers. These people put a lot of work in their cars to just see them get smashed up (not to speak of the danger aspect). I would rather see these old cars go racing against each other and the winner gets some real money, that would prevent them from entering all those cars into banger events.

Oval racing just has it all. Fans can see the whole track, drivers and equipment are never far away from average joe, close racing and lots of passing. Only thing in Holland that comes close to it is the Dutch round of the FIA Rallycross championship, which always has great action and a great atmosphere. If you're familiar with the event you will understand.

[ss_collins]

I tell you, if everyone in Europe that was trying to start an American stockcar series sat in one room at the same time and worked on it together, it would be awsome.

exactly - only CAMSO V8 has proven itself... so I say that should be the starting point. Its for club racers, its cheap, the cars look the part, and whats to stop them racing in more places? nothing - which is why they turned up at Lydden the last couple of years and I hear rumours of anothe UK venue for '08...

As Kelvin says - you want to see that kind of car racing in Holland - just tell CAMSO where they should turn up...

[kelvin88]

HCForums, The problem is that contact formula and Bangers is what people want, weather we like it or not. Bangers pay for our racing. If we have a meeting at Warneton with no contact formulas, the grandstands are half empty. That is an unfortunate fact but a fact non the less. It is changing though! The CAMSO V8s have a few hardcore fans who really love the racing and that fan base is growing all the time. As i said before though and ss_collins reittirated, if there is somewhere you can suggest that is suitable for our racing near you, i will talk to the promoter and we will see if we can sort something out.

[HCForums]

Didn't know that, as I said I've never been to an oval so I have no idea what the scene is like.

Have you guys ever talked to the people over at Venray Speedway? That's the only oval I know in the Southern part of Holland.

[tony s]

New for 2008 , Venray Speedway.
Sprintcar V6

[tony s]

Stockcar F1 ( 700 HP ) at Venray

[HCForums]

Tony S, how fast is the sprint car compared to the F1? Will they run their own series next year at Venray?

I've been through the BRL paddock three times this year but have not run into that one.

[tony s]

Originally Posted by HCForums

Tony S, how fast is the sprint car compared to the F1? Will they run their own series next year at Venray?

I've been through the BRL paddock three times this year but have not run into that one.

How much faster I do not know in KM per hour , but he was much faster than the Stockcar F1 ( the drove in the same session )
Has the same motor as the BRl V6 , only 25 HP more .
The Sprintcar had the same tyre´s on as the Stockcar F1 , no slicks.
Its the intention that this class goes of start next year. ( Venray )
Will well a new class become for the new oval, that as I heard , will be 1 KM long .
Sorry for my bad English .

[kelvin88]

Looks great! Can't help wonder why they didn't just make them V8 though.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by tony s

Will well a new class become for the new oval, that as I heard , will be 1 KM long .

Is the new oval confirmed??? Were do they build it?

[Minicross424]

Going back to a comment earlier it would be great if all the promoters in europe sat down and tried to sort out a proper europe stock car series and from what ive seen lately base it on the camso's.
Great racing at lydden this year and begs the question when are they going to be let loose on rockingham?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Minicross424

Going back to a comment earlier it would be great if all the promoters in europe sat down and tried to sort out a proper europe stock car series and from what ive seen lately base it on the camso's.
Great racing at lydden this year and begs the question when are they going to be let loose on rockingham?

There is potential - we have the tracks
Rockingham - 1.5 speedway
Eurospeedway - 2.0 superspeedway
Warneton - 0.3 short track
The rumoured 1km oval that tony s mentioned - 0.6 short track
Lydden has been used as a road course, other potential road courses could be Silverstone National, and maybe the Nring sprint track (using the smoother chicane that the trucks use)

The Nascar regional series (West, East, Canada and Mexico) are switching to the same car next year (iirc). They are effectively spec cars with different branded bodyshells, and the chassis are adaptable enough to eliminate the need for track specific cars. If you could set up a decent european championship using these cars then Nascar will soon come knocking.

With what i've read here of the sprintcar racing in Holland and Camso V8 there is certainly the grassroots thats needed.

[R59]

Originally Posted by Minicross424

Going back to a comment earlier it would be great if all the promoters in europe sat down and tried to sort out a proper europe stock car series and from what ive seen lately base it on the camso's.
Great racing at lydden this year and begs the question when are they going to be let loose on rockingham?

I've discussed this with Roland before, and the CAMSO cars are not equipped to race on a 170mph+ oval. A. they are not strong enough, and B. they would require different gearboxes, etc.. to achieve speedway rates of knots.

I'd love to see them at Rockingham, but technically, it ain't gonna happen.

There are lots of people who want to see this kind of racing in Europe, it's just that there are so many differences of opinion. It all needs pulling together, and that is where the issue lies - who?

Brian France said back in August that NASCAR would talk to like minded people in Europe, if those like minded people in Europe talked to NASCAR.

Before you talk to NASCAR, make sure that you have the right product on the table, or they will smile politely and say "no thanks".

So far, nobody has had the right product. And to my mind, none of what we have comes anywhere near it. The reason why everything fails is because nothing fit's their model of "how to do it". 1. Merchandising, 2. Public Perception/support, 3. Motor Racing. In that order.

I wish our friends in Holland the best success with their venture.

Just don't try running those crate LS2's on an oval. They'll go bang.

[kelvin88]

We could race there Trist, we even have the gearing to do so (though you would need a serious pace car!)

[Minicross424]

Im a bit confused Kevin because you are saying you can race at Rockingham and Rob is saying you cant!
It just frustrates me so much that there is not a top line series in europe.
I realise that we lack tracks but i seem to remember that Gavin Wills had a idea of racing at air bases as they effectly have large oval and there is lots of those in europe.
I just wonder if it might be worth having some sort meeting during the off season involving the top brass in oval racing in europe?

[kelvin88]

Rob has spoken to Roland and it would appear Roland has said we can't. I don't know why and it doesn't really matter. I have discussed this at length with Gary and Tony (Roots V8 Racing) and I assure you we can run it. The problem is it is not an exercise worth doing unless you have a high car count (25 to 30 but ideally 43!) Then, we would have to look at making the event free to enter. (CAMSO V8 drivers are very tight and dont like entry fees!) The cars would need some modifications to the chassis and the way the bodywork is mounted but thats only a time issue. If the track is open for testing next year, we might pop a car in there to try it out and see what we learn. But even if that went ok, i'm fear you are a long way of seeing CAMSO race there. The championship is guaranteed to grow by at least two cars a year so worst case senario, you looking at 6 years until we get 30 cars. Rockingham will probably be gone by then! Air bases are ok but not very spectator friendly. Infact I have seen Rallies on them where there was no spectators allowed at all! As for your final idea, yes it would be worth it, now tell us how to make it happen!