Race Retro and/or London Excel

[bauble]

Regardless of he merits of either show I do not believe we should hold the Annual meet anywhere further North than the Ace, as it could attract some of the - shall we say - less than savoury attendees.

[gt917]

Originally Posted by andy97

I would also suggest that the auto jumble is largely irrelevant to most competitors and would be better placed at a classic car show, rather than a motorsport show.

I totally disagree with you on this point. As a competitor running three historic type cars I always make straight to the autojumble stands first, in the hope of finding spare parts for stock. All the other stands are there for the weekend and won,t change in their layout, but that elusive part could be gone in the first 5 minutes !!!

As I,ve said previously though, RR has deteriorated noticeably and I think it borders on crass stupidity having two major shows on at the same time.
Having said this, RR is being given one last chance by me to up its game this time,and if not, I shall call time on it.

[The Fat Clerk]

After many years on a 'stand' I've given up on R.R. and certainly wont be going down sarf.

[chunder]

Interesting points from a few folk then. Some used to be regulars but like me have realised the show is only worth it because of either the social side or the rally stage bit and bits of the show.

The jumble areas used to be huge and you would often find some great bargains, can only presume either the charges went through the roof a la NEC in the 90's or there was just no interest from the public.

I certainly bought stuff there when it started, and haven't for years.

[Moneyseeker]

Too many classic events competing with each other is my hobby horse too!

I notice that RR is terming itself as 'Race Retro celebrates the very best of international historic motorsport' which is of course the same title as the show attached to the London CCS...

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water - another new show is starting in London at Olympa 17-19 Feb 2017 - the Olympia Historic Automobile - based around a Coys auction (yes yet another auction) and pitched at the moneyed end of the classic motoring and motorsport faternity. So that is 3 shows in two weeks and of course there is retromobile on 8th to 12th Feb....

RR - I have been several times in recent years and 2017 is Clarion's first time so I suspect they will feel their way and not change much in the short term. It needs investment to try and take it to a different level but as Chunder says, what can you do, is it worth it, does the location and venue pretty much fix the level of the show and attendance. Since LCCS and their new motosport halls add on, this has taken RR's USP of being the kick off event of the year for classic motorsport and motoring to a certain extent.

Will they keep it at Stoneleigh in the long term - who knows - it is probably contracted to be there for a few years - but if the London event impacts on attendance and exhibitors, maybe they will keep the name and bolt it on to the NEC and encourage clubs to put any motorsport content into RR, alongside new content and make it an end of season bash?

[Mike Bell]

I'd forgotten the Olympia thing! Website here- http://olympiahistoric.com/

And as you mention, Retromobile in Paris a couple of weeks earlier- https://www.retromobile.com/

Busy!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I beg to differ! Maybe it's because you are in the shiny parts hall, by the time they get to the Outer Darkness the competitors have dropped off and all that is left is people with memories of how quick they were.

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I always spend time in the outer reaches, but, seeing as the numbers drop off, GT917 is clearly one of the few competitors that buy anything!

If it doesn't work for exhibitors or consumers then they will vote with their feet.

I must admit that I have been going to RR almost since the start, and whilst I accept its a bit samey (so, is Autosport and the Classic Car show, perhaps that's the way it is), I have not noticed a drop off in quality or visitors over the last few years, I still really enjoy it, and I still wouldn't miss it. But then I only live about an hour away.

In that time I have missed Autosport a few times, and not missed it, if you see what I mean.

[apriliadriver]

I'm a Londoner and have been a regular Friday visitor to RR since the start, and had not noticed any particular drop-off in exhibitors or attendance - perhaps fewer s/h book sales stalls but that's true at other venues.

I went to the first Excel Historic Show and was not that taken by it, nothing like as interesting as the first RR. The exibitor attendance was too high-ticket, more likely to appeal to a loaded Citiboy, and the car demos were out-of-place and dull. Excel just lacks appeal, whereas the Stoneleigh venue is a bit more human and down-to-earth.
Nick

[dwh43scale]

[QUOTE=Mike Bell;3697641]I'd forgotten the Olympia thing! Website here- http://olympiahistoric.com/

"A NEW ULTRA LUXURY LIFESTYLE EVENT"

That's me out before I even look at the prices !

[chunder]

I don't think it will happen but I would love the Autosport show to move. As many will know, I detest that event, the fortune it costs for people to exhibit there, the insane parking fees, the outright theft of the ticket price. The lack of mix between disciplines meaning there is no cross fertilisation of sports.

I would be happy to see what would happen if that franchise moved to London and tacked on a historic show. You would lose the insane parking fees for the public, but exhibitors would gain a congtestion charge and probably a London emissions charge aswell.

The first few RR shows were a revelation for me, like the NEC used to be, vibrant, enthusiastic, full of interesting ideas.

AS with most things, someone buys into it for a couple of years contract, realises it's a money loser and moves on. Shame as the venue is great, perfect really. And they have some good ideas still. But you can almost already guess where the stalls will be and that is a sad aspect of the show, it has lost that mix of amateur sellers and professional outlets.

And they used to get some big names in there too

[midgetman]

You obviously never went to the Racing Car Show when it was in London! Sky high car parking at NEC? Have you tried parking at Olympia? The cost of food at London events puts NEC in the shade. Also the transport/accommodation problems/costs for exhibitors are magnified in the capital.

The NEC is a much more professional site for an exhibition the size of Autosports. Stoneleigh would fall apart with those attendance levels, the A46 would be blocked both ways, the little villages would be grid locked.

Nice to see RR has Tom Kristensen this year, don't get many bigger names to us LM24 fans.

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[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by midgetman

You obviously never went to the Racing Car Show when it was in London! Sky high car parking at NEC? Have you tried parking at Olympia? The cost of food at London events puts NEC in the shade. Also the transport/accommodation problems/costs for exhibitors are magnified in the capital.

The NEC is a much more professional site for an exhibition the size of Autosports. Stoneleigh would fall apart with those attendance levels, the A46 would be blocked both ways, the little villages would be grid locked.

Nice to see RR has Tom Kristensen this year, don't get many bigger names to us LM24 fans.

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Excel has Jacky Ickx, which surely must trump Mr Kristensen!

[midgetman]

No, no, no! Tom for World President!



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[chunder]

Midge

To be honest Iw as not talking about public parking. You would never, ever try and drive to an exhibition centre in London, it would be a horrid journey and parking would be crazy.

For the public the only option for shows in London is train and tube.

As exhibitors, it's a totally different story which is why shows like this have moved away from London due to the congestion charges, and emissions charges for diesels and commercials.

But for us punters a show in London would probably be a lot cheaper. Saying that, the people who run the Autosport Show do take the mick, there are other trade shows where the organisers soak up the parking costs and also the bike show there is only 20 quid, and they have free entertainment and bike rides aswell. But they do charge the unearthly parking for cars still.

I never meant putting the Autosport show anywhere other than London or NEC.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by midgetman

You obviously never went to the Racing Car Show when it was in London! Sky high car parking at NEC? Have you tried parking at Olympia? The cost of food at London events puts NEC in the shade.

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I went to several Racing Car Shows in the 1960s and didn't find it that expensive. Four up in a 1200cc Anglia from deepest Yorkshire setting off about 5-00 a.m., full day at the show after parking at Olympia, then back home, all in the day. Not expensive with costs split 4 ways. And the buzz was incredible.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I went to several Racing Car Shows in the 1960s and didn't find it that expensive. Four up in a 1200cc Anglia from deepest Yorkshire setting off about 5-00 a.m., full day at the show after parking at Olympia, then back home, all in the day. Not expensive with costs split 4 ways. And the buzz was incredible.

My first visit was in 1970, when it was staged at the Royal Horticultural Hall. Went by train from Norwich.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by chunder

I would be happy to see what would happen if that franchise moved to London and tacked on a historic show.

You have got to be joking!

Apart from the stupid costs of everything in London, this country is already dominated by London and the SE, whether it's infrastructure, the media, business or entertainment.

There is a "rest of the country" out there you know.
Give me strength.

[The Fat Clerk]

Couldn't agree more, I got out in the late 90's and now avoid it like the plague,

[chunder]

My point is not at all relevant to where I live or anything like that.

There are plusses and minusses to the show being anywhere.

In London you have a much larger audience although really the majority of people living there now are very rich or very poor and from other countries. But the target areas for the subject are immense around London.

It would be a cheaper show for the public as there would be no parking and transport would be cheaper from a much wider area.

But worse for exhibitors.

And rather than the petulant comments, come up with something constructive. I live in the SE because I can't earn anything like the money in my low end career anywhere else. And I do not come from the area, I moved down here as there were more opportunities. I would move back home if I could but in my industry the wages in my home town are minimum wage or lower. So chew on that before being so rude.

Horses for courses.

[dwh43scale]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I went to several Racing Car Shows in the 1960s and didn't find it that expensive. Four up in a 1200cc Anglia from deepest Yorkshire setting off about 5-00 a.m., full day at the show after parking at Olympia, then back home, all in the day. Not expensive with costs split 4 ways. And the buzz was incredible.

Likewise as a small boy from Derby. Best day was Model Engineering Exhibition in the morning, Boat Show in the afternoon, Racing Car Show on the ferry in the evening ... I'd be surprised if we paid to park anywhere that day.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by chunder

.......... I live in the SE ..........

to southerners Stevenage is in the midlands, albeit the south midlands

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

to southerners Stevenage is in the midlands, albeit the south midlands

Let's be honest, above the M4 is "north".

I like NEC for Autosports and Stoneleigh for RR. Living in an expensive-ish area of the south I don't find the cost of food at NEC exorbitant, and parking reminiscent of some of the rapacious councils round this way. I can get there in my 1.1 litre 106 and split parking four ways, and still have change for a night on the beer plus a chippy tea. Ee bah goom we knows how to live.

Seriously, I don't find the costs out of the way compared with other sports and pastimes in high profile areas. I look at the prices for an EPL match and wince - think of paying that every couple of weeks.

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[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

to southerners Stevenage is in the midlands, albeit the south midlands

Stevenage is in the north, anything above the M25 is "The North"

[FISCracer]

Have you moved Max? Deepest Wiltshire may be south of the M4 but is hardly home counties and not expensive unless you have a country estate or you are comparing with somewhere somewhere really out of the way. On that basis everywhere is expensive.

I think RR has had its day and competition from Excel will finish it off. Given that Autos port is about everything apart from historics, there is a gap for a decent show somewhere easy to get to ie not Stoneleigh. Whether Excel will become de rigour, we will have to see.

Originally Posted by midgetman

Let's be honest, above the M4 is "north".

I like NEC for Autosports and Stoneleigh for RR. Living in an expensive-ish area of the south I don't find the cost of food at NEC exorbitant, and parking reminiscent of some of the rapacious councils round this way. I can get there in my 1.1 litre 106 and split parking four ways, and still have change for a night on the beer plus a chippy tea. Ee bah goom we knows how to live.

Seriously, I don't find the costs out of the way compared with other sports and pastimes in high profile areas. I look at the prices for an EPL match and wince - think of paying that every couple of weeks.

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[midgetman]

I appreciate we are not as expensive as some areas of this green and pleasant land, but believe me 3 groats for a pint of ale round here is pricey enough! And as for tuppence three farthings for a sandwich.....

Last time I was at the NEC ISTR a pint was well under £4, £3.60 comes to mind, something several eateries round here would do well to emulate. I don't know about food, it wastes drinking time. But I don't think a coffee was much more than our local Costa Packet.



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