Luiggi's dreams

[LuiggiSpeed]

So here's my 4 a month dossier

This one is for a buddy I meet recently, we flew over his terrain (with google earth) and I came up with a little something.it's a 3km club track, goes clockwise, the rest you can see.

[ptclaus98]

I like it a lot. Great for a club track

[Teretonga]

Thats a great club track. Its simple, clean and effective.

[ECW Dan Selby]

End section will be real fun.

Again, nice amount of overtaking ops, but lots of fun to be had, too!

Selby

[LuiggiSpeed]

Trying to keep up with the "4 a month" promise....I'm a little behind already!

Here's "Sakuyoshi Park"

It's a 5.4 Kilometer CCW for the full course.
Club Course I haven't determined the lenght but it's around 3K, and runs CCW.
Short Course around 2.3K and runs CCW as well.
There's a VIP tower, ambulance access for all areas, a parking lot inside, two bridges(not that I like bridges, they're not cost effective.

EDIT:Still some gravel traps are needed, I missed them because I did this quite from the hip, one at T2, another one at last corner of Club Course! (my bad)

Main straight is 900M

This track was not designed to look good or organic, I rather started out thinking what I would like to ride, as viewed from behind the handlebar of a motorcycle or the steering wheel of a car, what kind of corners and directional changes, in what order etc. so I don't expect to set the world on fire as the art is concerned, but try to put yourself riding this track, see if you like it.

T1 super fast approach but can't get too carried away because the next section is a quite technical succession of corners with many directional changes.

After T5 you get a little breather, heading for an increasing radius T6 with a chance to accelerate thru T7 which is quite a high speed turn.

Next section is a quite difficult set of multi apex corners, very hard to pin the best line.

Next section is another breather, preparing for a set of corners that you need to connect correctly, for the best lap times, they are deceaving, and getting too deep into one may screw the rest of the section!

Last section is another multi apex and the last hairpin leading to the 900 mt straight.
That's a lap around my circuit.

[leftycobra]

really good!!!!!

[Teretonga]

I think we'd all love driving around that. I also like the concept of the alternate tracks and they way they are laid out.
It would be a brilliant test circuit too.

[bio]

Buddy, I'm absolutley sure Luiggi would ceremoniously sacrifice his wife to get a few laps on this baby

Jokes aside, a huge effort, both thumbs up!

bio

[ptclaus98]

If it were run clockwise, holy Mother of God at the 8-9-10-11 complex. If it had any elevation change, it would be the most ridiculously hair raising corner I've ever seen.

[LuiggiSpeed]

now that I look again, I see I got a lot to improve in the ways I connect circuits, it seems I design a circuit and then after it's done I look for places to put jumpers, rather than design two circuits that meet somewhere, if I made a good one anytime, it was because of pure good luck!

From now on I will think a little longer when designing splittable circuits.

[bio]

Well, gonna be a hard job improving your overall performance...

bio

[LuiggiSpeed]

Here again, as always I'm behind schedule on the 4-a-month exercise and I'll post this time a hi end racing club, with villas for members and participants to stay and a nice dedicated hotel with a view to practically all the track, mind you, this hotel is for racing enthusiasts!! nobody ever would look up a room here looking for peace and silence!

The track itself it's very uncharacteristic of my geometric designs, this one I don't even recognize it I hope I haven't unconsciously copied one from anyone in my subconscious.

That's it:
It's 18 turns, CCW, 3.8Km, the rest you can see here.
lready know the pit exit is kind of tricky, I put it at 125 meters of the corner so that racers are already slowing down when joiners come in accelerating.I also think reversing direction would be interesting but I have to rearrange a little bit the traps.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Your quite correct in that's it doesn't have your usual signature. Yet at the same time it's still clearly thought out (as is your nature preference) as a bike circuit rather than for cars.

I don't think changing the direction would work on this one, as you currently have the corners flowing in a "tight-in open-out" fashion that doesn't really reverse as it messes with the braking and overtaking zones.

Again for Bikes, well other than rainy MotoGP, there isn't pitstops, and bikes exiting the pits in practice and qually are usually pretty slow away and are able to find a blend into the flow of riders already on circuit. As such it doesn't bother me to much on this one.

A nice bit of elevation behind the pits and bottom left corner (in plan view) would great, perhaps something quite steeply up hill through the twisty bit before coming back down the short straight into the final corner. Maybe even the final corner being slightly below paddock level with on exit a gentle climb on the main straight that crests level with the start of the pit wall.

[bio]

Agreed, not like your usual stuff - but just as great.

Cannot help seeing a camel here, BTW

bio

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Your quite correct in that's it doesn't have your usual signature. Yet at the same time it's still clearly thought out (as is your nature preference) as a bike circuit rather than for cars.

THank you, that's an interesting comment,hat would be a difference between a car circuit and a bike circuit?

I don't think changing the direction would work on this one, as you currently have the corners flowing in a "tight-in open-out" fashion that doesn't really reverse as it messes with the braking and overtaking zones.


Yes the corners would change from increasing radius to decreasing forcing more trail braking rather than stop and go, I always try to blend corner types.

A nice bit of elevation behind the pits and bottom left corner (in plan view) would great, perhaps something quite steeply up hill through the twisty bit before coming back down the short straight into the final corner. Maybe even the final corner being slightly below paddock level with on exit a gentle climb on the main straight that crests level with the start of the pit wall.

That is totally a good idea, I thought of elevation changes but I didnt had time for that, I will throw a terrain contour map later on.

Originally Posted by bio

Agreed, not like your usual stuff - but just as great.

Cannot help seeing a camel here, BTW

bio

I see it too I thought about naming the track as such!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

With Bike and car circuits, for me it's the way corners flow together. for example from the camel's neck around and up to it's hump (yes I saw it last night, but I thought it was alcohol induced ). For Bikes there are several different lines that a bike would take resulting in different apexes of the "hump" thus allowing slow in fast out, faster in slow out and block -shove it up the inside types of overtaking at that particular corner.

That same sequence with a car, overtaking would be covered off pretty easily being in the centre of the circuit passing under the bridge. No room for another car to come up the inside.

Phillip Island is a great example of this, the flowing corners many can be taken on slightly different lines on Bikes which might put someone up the inside to the next corner. But when cars race on it, it's pretty much a single line circuit, it requires a mistake or massive lunge up the inside or a tap to unsettle the car in front enough to go side by side into a corner.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

With Bike and car circuits, for me it's the way corners flow together. for example from the camel's neck around and up to it's hump (yes I saw it last night, but I thought it was alcohol induced ). For Bikes there are several different lines that a bike would take resulting in different apexes of the "hump" thus allowing slow in fast out, faster in slow out and block -shove it up the inside types of overtaking at that particular corner.

That same sequence with a car, overtaking would be covered off pretty easily being in the centre of the circuit passing under the bridge. No room for another car to come up the inside.

Phillip Island is a great example of this, the flowing corners many can be taken on slightly different lines on Bikes which might put someone up the inside to the next corner. But when cars race on it, it's pretty much a single line circuit, it requires a mistake or massive lunge up the inside or a tap to unsettle the car in front enough to go side by side into a corner.

Nice explanation, I can see that too, cars and bikes can be ridden differently, but is it there any reason why a circuit may be a "car circuit" and a "bike circuit"?
(other than safety issues)

That reminds me of ancient times when I joined this board and I started hearing "overtaking spots" and I would think "what overtaking spot, in my bike I can pass you anywhere you left an opening" but I learned that in order for cars to pass there must be some kind of a braking issue, while in a bike you have many alternative lines and tactics, like you say, you can enter hot and block, or get passed and then retaliate when your competitor is forced wide by his chosen entry speed etc.

That's one reason why I like scientific circuits (Valencia,Qatar and so) because there's many direction changes that would allow such kind of competition, while other circuits like for example Laguna Seca are very tough to pass an equally talented competitor on a bike, much less on a car!

[Purist]

Luiggi, I think you yourself pointed out the racing potential of Laguna Seca a while back with that dice between Stoner and Rossi. Seeing your comment now makes me chuckle a bit.

Also, Laguna Seca is not at all unusual in how many turns it has relative to its length. In 2010, MotoGP and WSBK used a combined 25 circuits, and here is how they stack up:
1. Losail- 0.210mi/turn
2. Jerez- 0.211mi/turn
3. Le Mans Bugatti- 0.241mi/turn
4. Mugello- 0.217mi/turn
5. Silverstone- 0.204mi/turn
6. Assen- 0.166mi/turn
7. Catalunya- 0.180mi/turn
8. Sachsenring- 0.164mi/turn
9. Laguna Seca- 0.203mi/turn
10. Brno- 0.224mi/turn
11. Indianapolis- 0.164mi/turn
12. Misano- 0.168mi/turn
13. Motorland Aragon- 0.197mi/turn
14. Motegi- 0.213mi/turn
15. Sepang- 0.230mi/turn
16. Philip Island- 0.230mi/turn
17. Estoril- 0.186mi/turn
18. Valencia- 0.180mi/turn
19. Algarve- 0.207mi/turn
20. Monza- 0.277mi/turn
21. Kyalami- 0.200mi/turn
22. Miller- 0.203mi/turn
23. Nurburgring- 0.200mi/turn
24. Imola- 0.191mi/turn
25. Magny Cours- 0.161mi/turn

This puts Laguna Seca almost dead center, with 13 tracks having more corners for their length (Miller's unrounded figure is slightly smaller than Laguna's), and 11 circuits having fewer corners for their length. And interestingly, Laguna Seca actually has relatively more changes in direction than does Qatar.

[Purist]

And here are the 10 AMA Superbike courses from the 2010 slate for comparison:
1. Daytona- 0.211mi/turn
2. Fontana- 0.131mi/turn
3. Road Atlanta- 0.170mi/turn
4. Sears Point- 0.145mi/turn
5. Road America- 0.273mi/turn
6. Mid Ohio- 0.174mi/turn (assuming use of the 2.258-mile layout)
7. Laguna Seca- 0.203mi/turn
8. VIR (North)- 0.132mi/turn
9. Thunderbolt- 0.141mi/turn (assuming use of 2nd chicane)
10. Barber- 0.153mi/turn

It's interesting how I don't necessarily consider a smaller number to be a bad thing right off for the international bike courses, but for the bike tracks, or track configurations, in the States, it seems to correlate much more closely, that a circuit with a lower quotient will be worse for car racing.

[LuiggiSpeed]

That's why the Rossi-Stoner scuffle was so great, Rossi is one of the few people alive that can slam a motorcycle into a space that a baby cat would barely fit ,all that at over 150mph in a difficult circuit,most international racers had problems with Laguna at first because it's um, different...that's why local boy Hayden won the first couple of times, now that advantage is gone.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by Purist

...And interestingly, Laguna Seca actually has relatively more changes in direction than does Qatar.

Qatar:
T1-T2
T2-T3
T5-T6
T6-T7
T7-T8
T8-T9
T9-T10
T11-T12
T14-T15
T15-T16
10 direction changes




Laguna:

T2-T3
T4-T5
T8-T8A
T8A-T9
T9-T10
T10-T11
6 direction changes

[Purist]

i was going by the number of corners on the circuits. I'm not sure what you're going by, but several of those places you mention look like straightaways, not turns (i.e. not changes in direction of the track).

Having taken another look, I think I kind of see what you're counting, but I don't see how just going from track left to right, or vise versa, qualifies as a direction change, so I'm still not following the logic here.

[bio]

I guess Luiggi is going by the direction of the corners. For example, on the Qatar circuit, T1-T6 there are 4 direction changes: R-L-(RRR)-L. In Laguna Seca, T1-T6 there are only 3 direction changes: (LL)-(RR)-(LL)

bio

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by bio

I guess Luiggi is going by the direction of the corners. For example, on the Qatar circuit, T1-T6 there are 4 direction changes: R-L-(RRR)-L. In Laguna Seca, T1-T6 there are only 3 direction changes: (LL)-(RR)-(LL)

bio

Exactly.
Directional change is when you are going right and then you rapidly change direction to left or vice versa. You can have 4 consecutive corners to the left(or right) and thats not a directional change in my mind, a directional change it's the most exiting moment for me in a track because you have to hang on the right of the bike and then suddenly move your body to the other side of the bike and present your other knee to the asphalt, all of that has to be perfectly timed so that you hit your apex and don't get spat of the bike.I don't know it it's as exiting on a car but I'm already exited just talking about it

BTW I just found this pic on my facebook, #19 ol LSpeed stalking his prey

[bio]

Wow, that's one bumpy straight

And, say, where do you keep your glasses and tie during races?

bio