Mark Webber

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Mar 2005, 08:56 (Ref:1256543)

This is going to be discussed ad infinitim so I thought I'd start a separate thread.

First Ralf and Mark get into a tussle and Ralf on the inside pushes into Mark. No big deal in terms of "blame" because they were dicing for position and although it could be said that Mark, on the outside could have given way, he was defending his position. Racing incident.

Next we get Nick into the picture. I thought his presence added pressure to Mark and then he in turn goes for Fissi on the outside of the corner where he'd been "rubbed" by Ralf.

So whilst the outcome was a racing incident I suspect the Stewards may take some action because Mark already knew what would happen at that corner. And in this case he was making the move and the guy on the inside was defending.

So do we think the reason for Mark's "possible" impetuosity was the presence of Nick?

(Sensible discussion here I mean no disrespect to any of the drivers involved.)

Kicking-back · 20 Mar 2005, 09:02 (Ref:1256551)

The actual collision was a racing incident - but I agree Webber, knowing Fisichella was in tyre trouble and knowing Fisi was slipstreaming him, could have avoided the collision.

But these things happen in racing - if no-one ever had a go there would be no collisions.

A storm in a tea-cup probably.

ozrevhead · 20 Mar 2005, 09:03 (Ref:1256554)

that'll b right

go ahead blame mark - if that is what makes you happy

**GTRMagic** · 20 Mar 2005, 09:03 (Ref:1256555)

Its not on the teev here for another 3 hrs.... ****** Network #10

So Potsie is a DNF while Heidfeld is on the podium... hmmm

Kicking-back · 20 Mar 2005, 09:05 (Ref:1256559)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

that'll b right

go ahead blame mark - if that is what makes you happy

Having heard Mark interviewed after the race he seemed to shrug it off.

We can be thankful he's not as sensitive as his "fans".

God knows what the reaction will be when he actually achieves anything

ozrevhead · 20 Mar 2005, 09:07 (Ref:1256562)

mark doent read the cr@p about him that put on this forum

Hugh Jarce · 20 Mar 2005, 09:08 (Ref:1256563)

Brundle says 60% - Webber, 40% - Fisi - but a racing incident.

I think his judgements are normally sound, so Webber more at fault.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Mar 2005, 09:13 (Ref:1256572)

I was actually asking if Mark was under pressure from the presence of Nick. I'd already stated that IMO it was a racing incident so let's not get all girly and sensitive.

ozrevhead · 20 Mar 2005, 09:16 (Ref:1256578)

WHAT WTH?!?!?!?!?!?!?

you want to blam Mark for this?!?!?!? and you guys think IM delusional
he had a chance to overtake fisi and he took it

50/50 racing incident at best

Kicking-back · 20 Mar 2005, 09:16 (Ref:1256580)

I think we'll see as the season goes on, that Webber is probably the better qualifier of the two and Nick the better racer.

Small margins in it though

ozrevhead · 20 Mar 2005, 09:18 (Ref:1256583)

of couse im gonna get girly - i am one

and anwer to your question - IMHO i dont really think so

ozrevhead · 20 Mar 2005, 09:18 (Ref:1256585)

sigh

i cant stop ppl bagging mark every change they get so i give and no matter what you post, im gonna ignore it

i give up

Sodemo · 20 Mar 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1256588)

Its a hard one to apportion blame.
Fisi did lose the car, and it was his car that was sliding when they both made contact.
But Mark did position his car very aggressivly.

Its a shame, we were robbed of a great battle there.

I'd say 50 - 50, both had a hand in the incident.

Marbot · 20 Mar 2005, 09:20 (Ref:1256589)

Not a good place to put yourself on that corner,very slippery and if your on the outside your going to collect anything running a bit wide.

If MW knew GF was in trouble with grip would he not have been better off going for it down the inside or have held off a bit to let GF run wide and then take the inside.

Easy to know what to do afterwards isn't it.

Kicking-back · 20 Mar 2005, 09:21 (Ref:1256591)

Mental note to self - "no criticism, however mild, of Mark Webber is allowed, ever."

ozrevhead · 20 Mar 2005, 09:23 (Ref:1256595)

on second thoughts, its not worth responding

Timmeh · 20 Mar 2005, 09:26 (Ref:1256603)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

sigh

i cant stop ppl bagging mark every change they get so i give and no matter what you post, im gonna ignore it

i give up

No one's bagging Mark here, they're discussing an incident and how it occured. Too much caffeine for you today Ozrevhead

M Harrison · 20 Mar 2005, 09:27 (Ref:1256607)

Ah, didn't see this thread, apologies. I posted this in the main thread:

Quote:

Have to feel sorry for Mark Webber. I'm not quite sure what Martin Brundle was on about, I must admit - Fisi dives up the inside, brakes impossibly late, slides into Webber (who had left room) and it's "60/40 Mark's fault"? What's that about. Looked like 100/0 Fisi's fault to me. The same thing happened to Webber a few laps earlier as Ralf had one of his ill-advised lunges as well.

I can't see how this is even 50/50. Fisi is the one making the move here, going down the inside. The one thing you do not ever ever do when you're lunging up the inside of someone is outbrake yourself! Not in an open-wheeled race, because the chances are you're both going out of the race. Mark left plenty of room to the outside, more than enough for Fisichella to run on the inside. If you outbrake yourself, and run into the car in front having lost control, it's absolutely, always 100% your fault IMO.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Mar 2005, 09:27 (Ref:1256608)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

If MW knew GF was in trouble with grip would he not have been better off going for it down the inside or have held off a bit to let GF run wide and then take the inside.

That's why I wonder if he was under presure from Nick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin bott

Easy to know what to do afterwards isn't it.

Hindsight is an exact science.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Mar 2005, 09:28 (Ref:1256611)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrevhead

of couse im gonna get girly - i am one

Oops!!!

Heebeegeetee · 20 Mar 2005, 09:29 (Ref:1256614)

The fact that Ralf collided with something or someone again is not news. The guy is totally incompetent and should not be in F1. He is a total menace to himself and everyone around him, and for those who disagree with me, can you tell me, from last season and this, how many F1 races has he done without colliding with someone or something? Last season he collided with his fellow competitors, his pit crew, his team mate, and the scenery on more than one occasion. At the one venue the circus went to where they didn't want to hit the scenery, ie Indianapolis, he hit the wall so hard he lost the rest of the season.

So when he lunged up the inside of Webber, I felt fairly sure I knew what was coming next.

Now, Fisi and Webber. Let's look at this from Fisi's point of view. He was in trouble. He was in very much a damage limitation exercise. How did he end his race, with some well deserved points in the bag which might come in useful later in the season, or did he end his race with the rest of his crew in the pitlane before the race was over? We know the answer.

Its very interesting, I think. Here he is in his first ever opportunity to have a tilt at the championship, and he crashes out of the second race of the season. People can blame whoever they want, but only he was at the wheel of his car, and only he decided to have a lunge up the dirty side of the track, in a car which had shot tyres. It ain't rocket science, is it? He will never, ever win a championship by driving like that.

Personally, I have some sympathy for Webber. Three times now, in two races, he has had to avoid another driver trying as hard as possible to have a collision with him. In the third occasion, he was again trying to make room for another driver who had got his car sideways, had all wheels locked up and was totally out of shape. They're not racing incidents to me.

OK, its standard stock cars stuff, but this is F1.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Mar 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1256616)

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Harrison

Ah, didn't see this thread, apologies. I posted this in the main thread:

I can't see how this is even 50/50. Fisi is the one making the move here, going down the inside. The one thing you do not ever ever do when you're lunging up the inside of someone is outbrake yourself! Not in an open-wheeled race, because the chances are you're both going out of the race. Mark left plenty of room to the outside, more than enough for Fisichella to run on the inside. If you outbrake yourself, and run into the car in front having lost control, it's absolutely, always 100% your fault IMO.

Um, Mark was making a pass on the outside. Not Fissi overtaking Mark.

Don K · 20 Mar 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1256618)

I think it is not Webber's fault.

Maybe he could have anticipated. But as far as I understand, the drivers have been warned beforehand that that corner would be very dirty (no grip) on the inside.

I think Webber did overtake Fisichella, Fisichella tried to gain back his position, Fisichella ended up on a piece of track with no grip, and Webber didn't anticipate.
Just a race incident, about 70% Fisichella's responsibility.

M Harrison · 20 Mar 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1256620)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Um, Mark was making a pass on the outside. Not Fissi overtaking Mark.

Really? Not how I remember it. Mark went up the inside in 14, and Fisi was coming back at him down the backstraight.

**Peter Mallett** · 20 Mar 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1256623)

They were side by side at best but it was definitely Fissi's position on the inside of the corner.

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