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View Poll Results: Touring Cars vs Production cars, which is a better racer
V8 Touring Cars 7 35.00%
Production Cars 9 45.00%
Both are good 3 15.00%
Neither of them 1 5.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9 Jul 2008, 03:14 (Ref:2247648)   #1
Razor
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Razor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Touring cars or production cars, who makes better racing?

What would you choose? After a disscussion with a mate of mine yesterday, he said that while the V8's a good to watch, the golden olden days of racing with production cars were better entertainment. So this got me thinking, what would the general race fans like more, todays V8 Supercars or if CAMS brang back the production car type of racing back in the mainstream?

In my opinion, bring back the production racing that was done in the 70's. Keep it stock except for saftey gear and if you have some form of small advantage, keep it instead of going through a year of political bs to see if it good for the sport of not.
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Old 9 Jul 2008, 04:12 (Ref:2247658)   #2
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i love the old Group C & A classes but i think that todays racing is good but the old days take the cake.
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Old 9 Jul 2008, 08:43 (Ref:2247771)   #3
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
by touring cars i hope you don't mean V8Supercars.....

Production Cars refer to the likes of Series Production, Group E, the early 90s Bathurst 12hrs etc....

Touring Cars refer to the likes of Group C, Group A, whilst in looser terms the early V8Supercars, Super Touring etc etc....
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Old 9 Jul 2008, 09:29 (Ref:2247808)   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
What would you choose? After a disscussion with a mate of mine yesterday, he said that while the V8's a good to watch, the golden olden days of racing with production cars were better entertainment. So this got me thinking, what would the general race fans like more, todays V8 Supercars or if CAMS brang back the production car type of racing back in the mainstream?

In my opinion, bring back the production racing that was done in the 70's. Keep it stock except for saftey gear and if you have some form of small advantage, keep it instead of going through a year of political bs to see if it good for the sport of not.
Seriously V8 Supercars have moved beyond Touring cars and are a bit like NASCAR, DTM, or the aborted PROCAR regs of 1988 and is a silouhette series.

Touring Cars is really classes like WTCC and BTCC.
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Old 9 Jul 2008, 11:26 (Ref:2247874)   #5
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You know how everyone complains that SC racing is boring, that is basically because all the cars are the same spec. Production cars will fix that problem because the cars are all different, even those of the same make can be different enough to be seen. It also sorts out the drivers, those who can manage a race car that isn't quite as good as it could be and gives brakes and tyres a hard time and those who just drive it as hard as it will go.
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Old 9 Jul 2008, 13:55 (Ref:2247978)   #6
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Razor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
When I mean touring cars, I do mean the current V8 Supercars.
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Old 10 Jul 2008, 02:59 (Ref:2248374)   #7
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DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
When I mean touring cars, I do mean the current V8 Supercars.
Maybe you ought to change the options and title to avoid confusing people. I like touring car racing best, but it's not an option in your pole.
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Old 10 Jul 2008, 04:51 (Ref:2248383)   #8
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Originally Posted by racer69
by touring cars i hope you don't mean V8Supercars.....

Production Cars refer to the likes of Series Production, Group E, the early 90s Bathurst 12hrs etc....

Touring Cars refer to the likes of Group C, Group A, whilst in looser terms the early V8Supercars, Super Touring etc etc....
Are you suggesting the latter are touring cars and that V8 Supercars are not?
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Old 10 Jul 2008, 06:31 (Ref:2248406)   #9
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You know how everyone complains that SC racing is boring
Thats very correct Safety Car racing isnt that exciting Casper

I dont know I think you would have to go to the WTCC formula if you want something in the middle of what was Group C & Group A - both were formulas for their time and both exciting for what they were. I do miss the various classes that were employed in the Australian Touring Car championships and the full fields at Bathurst - 52 cars wasnt it. I think with V8 Supercars now the parity rules are so tight that racing is becoming - well - boring. If you did have a formula where you had another 2-3 makes in the Supercars or if the Ford & Holden teams were homologated into a WTCC series you would still have that tribal rivalry between the two camps and the racing could be fantastic - just my two cents
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Old 10 Jul 2008, 07:12 (Ref:2248445)   #10
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Oldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Series production with saety mods and some relaxation on electronics chips, exhaust downstream of manifold, fuel cells etc. Upper price limits and price structure together with capacity to set classes. The B12 has something like the right idea but the detail needs improving.
Racing has to be in an enduro format, About 4hrs min.
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Old 10 Jul 2008, 07:40 (Ref:2248469)   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Hornet
Are you suggesting the latter are touring cars and that V8 Supercars are not?
I wasn't suggesting it, i was saying it
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Old 10 Jul 2008, 21:24 (Ref:2248865)   #12
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Originally Posted by racer69
I wasn't suggesting it, i was saying it
Mmmmm . . . so how did you work that one out?

Maybe you can enlighten on what is or not a touring car and why a V8 Supercar isn't one?
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 00:28 (Ref:2248926)   #13
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production cars are awesome, but only with grids of 30-35+, and a good range of cars in each class

12-15 cars, with 6-7 in one class and 1-2 in the others isnt a true reflection of how good production car racing is
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 07:05 (Ref:2249001)   #14
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Oldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Ever tried to tour from Sydney to the Gold Coast in a V8SC.
Once upon a time when the good fairy lived at the bottom of the garden it was not uncommon for touring cars or sports cars to be driven too and from the circuit. David McKay used to drive the LM250 Ferrari to all events, including interstate.
I can recall the Leaton Motors D Type being used to collect parts from 60miles away when the "transporter" broke down.
But seriously, maybe it should be a requirement of entry that a touring car should be road registered.

Last edited by Oldtony; 11 Jul 2008 at 07:07.
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 07:53 (Ref:2249021)   #15
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The V8 Supercar champion is presented with the trophy for winning the Australian Touring Car Championship.

I dont agree with this anymore, but that is what happens. I agree with Falc, they are more like NASCAR's and DTM cars these days.

What about what the Kiwi's are up to with there NZV8's...? They look great and produce good racing. What are they worth to build ?
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 09:11 (Ref:2249055)   #16
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David Towe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Muscle Car Masters in September at the creek will showcase some great "Touring Cars" and provide good battles throughout the entire field of 30+ genuine "historic touring cars', see you there?
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 12:01 (Ref:2249139)   #17
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Well, by the definitions given in here, this means V8SC is a silhouette category, and that what we call Production Cars are Touring Cars? (Particularly in the forms of the GTS and GT-P?)
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Old 12 Jul 2008, 03:34 (Ref:2249521)   #18
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Series Prod was the go until we started to get some really interesting Sports Sedans. The first had more go than stop, an essential ingredient in any racing that wants to be entertaining and the latter were so innovative and all so different that it resulted in huge interest. McCormacks charger, the demented Corvair of Gardner etc. Now bring back that sort of innovation and I don't care whether it is SS or SP.
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