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Old 5 Feb 2009, 15:44 (Ref:2389133)   #26
teammoda
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teammoda has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
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Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w
Well, they're sub £150 for a reason. Without the twin turbos, they're a heavy slug.
The Mk4 supra engine is capable of tuning up to 1000 bhp,granted the higher figure is with a turbo but you can tune the the N/A considerably,all for an engine that can be bought for £150 and that would be an engine with a FSH.Now lets see 2K budget on a motor,purchase £150 ,£850 turning it into a very capable reliable machine,these engines stock or tuned are bulletproof,its a cheap and very reliable way to go very fast.
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Old 6 Feb 2009, 08:06 (Ref:2389578)   #27
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Originally Posted by teammoda
Are you seriously suggesting that this guy is going to use an ex F1 V10 engine.....get real
Er, last year's British championship was won by a Nicolson Mclaren V8, an ex CART engine with the Turbo taken off, also used in the GP Masters championship. Ex F1 Judd V8s bored out to 4l were commonplace in uk Hillclimb but are now considered too heavy to justify their 500bhp, not to mention they can't be insalled low enough in the chassis to offer a competitive handling car or power delivery flexibly.

Get Real? is this Ex 2002 Arrows Cosworth V10 real enough?

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/G...or-F_17818.htm
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Old 6 Feb 2009, 10:50 (Ref:2389663)   #28
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Originally Posted by teammoda
The Mk4 supra engine is capable of tuning up to 1000 bhp,granted the higher figure is with a turbo but you can tune the the N/A considerably,all for an engine that can be bought for £150 and that would be an engine with a FSH.Now lets see 2K budget on a motor,purchase £150 ,£850 turning it into a very capable reliable machine,these engines stock or tuned are bulletproof,its a cheap and very reliable way to go very fast.
Eh?

You could get 1000bhp from my underpants with the right Turbo. And you can buy my underpants for a lot less than £150. But there's a reason nobody who's at all serious about being vaguely competitive in any class is using either my underpants or Toyota Supra Engines. Because neither was designed for anything like Speed Hillclimb. Toyota Supra engines were designed as an affordable grand touring engine, and my underpants were designed to hold my less pleasant appendiges in place and absorb minor leakages. In other words, lolloping high capacity mass produced engines that can be slung together in 5 hours and last 250000 miles. But whichever way you slice it, that's almost exactly what you don't want from a really good Hill Climb Engine. (ideally you need a unique italian hand crafted engine so light you could blow it off the bench by passing wind carelessly, gives you 700+ bhp NA @ around 12000rpm then self destructs after about 10 miles)You'd have to throw a lot more than £850 shaving off the weight and turning them into something that could develop enough power quickly engough to be in anyway useful.

So enough of this Supra Talk. They are a cheap reliable way of going much faster than the average Vauxhall Nova with an ironing board glued with Bostic to the boot pretending to be a wing, but much slower than virtually everything competing Hillclimb.
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Old 6 Feb 2009, 13:51 (Ref:2389785)   #29
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Tooooo much information there!
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 13:05 (Ref:2403859)   #30
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far to much info, however a valid point. If you cant afford the hand crafted Italian piece of art then speak to Martin Schanche and im sure he will be a touch cheaper than buying a Leonardo da Vinci engine.
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Old 1 Mar 2009, 00:26 (Ref:2406324)   #31
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Originally Posted by teammoda View Post
Are you seriously suggesting that this guy is going to use an ex F1 V10 engine.....get real



Quote:
Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w View Post

Get Real? is this Ex 2002 Arrows Cosworth V10 real enough?

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/G...or-F_17818.htm




Real enough for ya ???

I suspect so as you haven't posted since
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Old 2 Mar 2009, 13:46 (Ref:2407370)   #32
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I wonder how long it will take now there's a recession on, an engine freeze and V8's are a la mode, for some de tuned v10's to suddenly appear. There can't be much leading edge tech in them worth holding onto, espicially when folk may have some wedge to blow and teams are pleading penuary......
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Old 22 Apr 2009, 14:22 (Ref:2447036)   #33
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You guys are serious I can tell!
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Old 23 Apr 2009, 07:24 (Ref:2447585)   #34
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I can't manage the link, but there is footage on Youtube of Reto Meisel's Mercedes 190 fitted with a Judd V8. Extraordinary, but costly. The Mercedes Cosworth 2.3-16 valve four-pot is a good candidate and will run to 300-330 bhp normally-aspirated with a basic standalone fuel layout. Turbocharged, they'll do 600 bhp, I'm told...
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Old 29 Apr 2009, 07:47 (Ref:2452005)   #35
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You can forget your F1 engines, the humble 2 stroke is still king! I believe Kriedler claimed 20hp from their 50cc racers back in the 1980's. The last of the 500cc GP bikes were claiming 200hp and the current 250cc GP bikes are rumoured to have over 100hp. That is 400 horsepower per litre! The best 4 stokes available (F1) make only 300hp/lt or so. A two stroke engine will always be lighter than its 4 stroke equivalent because it doesn't have camshafts or valves etc.
It's a shame no one has made a modern, big capacity 2 stroke engine. I think a 3 litre V6 detuned to around 1000hp would be a good thing on the hills...
Unfortunately in our mundane modern world the two stroke has all but been forgotten.

In reply to the original question, the 13b rotary engine in the early 1980's RX7 race cars claimed 330hp from their peripheral port engines. I believe the engines weigh around 90kg's or so and actual capacity is 1300cc.

Not up to F1 standards I know, but comparing apples with apples, how many mass production engines will make that sort of power for the weight, let alone capacity?
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Old 30 Apr 2009, 12:28 (Ref:2452859)   #36
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Imagine a 5 litre v8 two stroke what would that sound Like....forget the power!
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Old 30 Apr 2009, 13:30 (Ref:2452903)   #37
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An Elephant after a very dodgy curry?
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Old 1 May 2009, 11:43 (Ref:2453544)   #38
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Imagine a 5 litre v8 two stroke what would that sound Like....forget the power!
i saw an 8 cylinder 2 stroke in a special saloon at oulton park about 10 yrs ago, it was basically 2 yamaha 750s side by side with 8 expansion chambers sticking out of the back and it had a wail like a Banshee
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Old 1 May 2009, 22:35 (Ref:2453876)   #39
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There have been a few hillclimb specials built in Australia in the past using two stroke outboard engines.

They could run with the leading cars (which admittedly were not as hard core as the british F1 engined machines).

Some pretty good configurations to those engines as well. With tuning they'd be getting right up there power wise as well.

Sounded pretty wild as well.

Don't have details I'm afraid (long time ago).
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Old 12 Jun 2009, 07:45 (Ref:2480754)   #40
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There have been a few hillclimb specials built in Australia in the past using two stroke outboard engines.

They could run with the leading cars (which admittedly were not as hard core as the british F1 engined machines).

Some pretty good configurations to those engines as well. With tuning they'd be getting right up there power wise as well.

Sounded pretty wild as well.

Don't have details I'm afraid (long time ago).
As an examle the merc 2.5 efi outboard complete weighs some 375lbs (170kg) and outputs over 300hp from the propshaft with the drag version rev-limiter which allows for 9000rpm. The powerhead itself weighs in the range of 200lbs (<100kg) and power directly off the crank is probably also slightly higher.

This is more or less off-shelf production stuff.

With off-shelf performance upgrade kits they go in the 350hp range.

Admittedly there is a fair amount of engineering to fit one of these into a car, but the power to weight ratio is still pretty nice.

I realized these power/weight facts when I was looking for a upgrade for my trusty old mercs. It is close to impossible to build anything comparable using parts from engines intended for use on land without blowing your budget.

OK, they are far from Formula-1 level in power to weigh ratio, but so is the price.

I would have loved to see a hillclimb car powered by one of these. I've played around with the idea myself.

-otto
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