[Official] Round 17: Indian Grand Prix

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

So let's just get rid of KERS and DRS...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/form...e/15524661.stm

I'm all in favour of that.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm all in favour of that.

Well, you could lose those, and then you're faced with faster cars getting stuck behind slower cars. Cars that may well be much, much slower than the car behind. Would Hamilton have even had the chance to get by Massa had he not had KERS and DRS to use along the long straight just before the section of track where the incident occurred? No, probably not.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Well, you could lose those, and then you're faced with faster cars getting stuck behind slower cars. Cars that may well be much, much slower than the car behind. Would Hamilton have even had the chance to get by Massa had he not had KERS and DRS to use along the long straight just before the section of track where the incident occurred? No, probably not.

Faster cars getting stuck behind slower cars has always been an aspect of motor racing.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Faster cars getting stuck behind slower cars has always been an aspect of motor racing.

Indeed it has, but not one that seems to be very popular.

I can perhaps see where the DRS may not be of much use when the new engine regulations come in. Mainly because the cars will have to be less 'draggy' anyway. KERS will be even more important when the new regulations come in. Because, on a 100 litres of fuel (or thereabouts), your 30% efficient i.c. engine is going to be no match, in terms of efficiency, for your 90% efficient electric motor.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think that it's very wrong to blame things like KERS and DRS for accidents. All the drivers can use them, all of them know how they can be used to defend or attack.

By getting rid of KERS and DRS, you lose two ways in which a car is able to overtake another one, whilst still keeping F1 cars faster than other similar cars in open wheel racing.

You should listen to Anthony Davidson's account of the latest accident between Lewis and Felipe from a drivers point of view, and then come back here and we will talk about KERS and DRS...

Five Live F1 podcast...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

You should listen to Anthony Davidson's account of the latest accident between Lewis and Felipe from a drivers point of view, and then come back here and we will talk about KERS and DRS...

Five Live F1 podcast...

Yes, F1 is a 'complicated' thing. If the drivers don't understand what happens when they use things like KERS and DRS, then maybe they ought to do something more simple instead?

As for the incident, I much prefer Massa's view of it given that: "As drivers we are always taught that the car behind is responsible so to my mind the stewards misinterpreted what happened." DC

What must also be remembered is that Massa did his one move back on to the "grippy" racing line. This left Hamilton on the dirty line into the corner, so there's little wonder that he backed out of it a bit early. Anthony Davidson has not driven on this circuit, but his view is welcome, in as much as it differs from the views of other ex-F1 drivers and arm chair enthusiasts.

[JeremySmith]

I agree like no KERS and DRS and take control of aerodynamics, get rid of that very silly and very blingy front wing that is screaming "come on hit me"

[Marbot]

DRS could go, even at the end of this season. KERS is going to stay. It's the one thing that the manufacturers want to market and send a message out to the public with, by using it on their F1 cars. Hybrid and electric cars are the future, for now.

As for aerodynamics. We've been crying out for down force to be cut for ages, and I'm fine with that. But what people don't seem to realise is that aero is where most of the extra speed over other similar open wheel cars comes from on an F1 car. The tyres have to stay and IMO, need to get even more marginal.

[herowassenna]

I would never profess to being an engineer, may read different things and gleen some of the information, but I wonder how much difference this lowered nose will make.
I have felt for some time that F1 cars were affected less by following a competitor when they all had low noses as opposed to what has been the design trend since the early 90's.
I well remember Raikkonen understeering wide at Stowe in 2004 or 5 following Schumi.
The commentators all claimed Schumi had braked mid-corner etc etc, yet after the race Kimi said not at all, lost all downforce so had to hold back.

The other thing really is mechanical grip, the tyres have artificially brought this to F1.

One final point, cornering speed is where F1 gets their extra speed from over other series?
The only comparable one is Indy or IRL because of the crazy speeds. They aren't an alternative to F!. Anything governed by the FIA can be brought into line with F1 easily.

[Pingguest]

About the latest incident involving Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa once again:

[Bononi]

What shall we do next ?

He's the one that have answers.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

About the latest incident involving Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa once again:

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by bravo

Are all parts scrutineered, or just the car as presented before and after the race?

Ted Kravitz said during the race that Ferrari changed Massa's wing because they thought the stewards would call them in for it anyway... so doesn't that mean there is the possibility their car did not conform to spec during the GP?

This leads to the question - what's stopping a car coming in lap 1, putting on a illegal part, romping off into the lead, then quick stop/go to put a legal part back on for the final lap?

I got the impression that the offending wing was going into a resonance at the end of the straight, probably excited by some sort of vortex-shedding effect. Given the lack of testing these days, it would be quite understandable for Ferrari to have been unaware of what would happen until they used it in anger for the first time. If I'm right, it would be fairly easy to beef up the structure a bit and that would move the resonant frequency up to a point where it would only occur above the maximum speed of the car.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I got the impression that the offending wing was going into a resonance at the end of the straight, probably excited by some sort of vortex-shedding effect. Given the lack of testing these days, it would be quite understandable for Ferrari to have been unaware of what would happen until they used it in anger for the first time. If I'm right, it would be fairly easy to beef up the structure a bit and that would move the resonant frequency up to a point where it would only occur above the maximum speed of the car.

They were supposed to have 'beefed' them up before the race. Obviously it didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Marbot

They were supposed to have 'beefed' them up before the race. Obviously it didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

F1 cars are on the leading edge (ouch) of low speed aerodynamics. It's understandable some things work and some don't. It's a pretty arcane art.