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Old 27 Mar 2008, 11:28 (Ref:2162907)   #1
al_sami
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Pole Position has no meaning and value now

I think over the last few years pole position in f1 has no value or meaning other than being able to start the race at the front. Often driver from the top 2 or 3 teams who have the lightest car can get pole. Its not like in the days where the fastest driver was rewarded with pole, like in the days of Senna when he would drive and push the car 110% to get pole.

Now its all fake, last season we saw Lewis get pole on many occasions by having a lighter car. Silverstone was one such example!
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 11:29 (Ref:2162909)   #2
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Er...starting the race at the front is quite valuable!
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 11:30 (Ref:2162910)   #3
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zac510 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So what?
Are you sure you're not just a troll?
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 11:32 (Ref:2162914)   #4
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Originally Posted by al_sami
I think over the last few years pole position in f1 has no value or meaning other than being able to start the race at the front. Often driver from the top 2 or 3 teams who have the lightest car can get pole. Its not like in the days where the fastest driver was rewarded with pole, like in the days of Senna when he would drive and push the car 110% to get pole.

Now its all fake, last season we saw Lewis get pole on many occasions by having a lighter car. Silverstone was one such example!
There's still plenty of kudos attached to acheiving pole position, in my opinion. Lewis's pole lap at Silverstone was nothing short of exceptional, regardless of fuel-loads, and was probably my viewing highlight of 2007.
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 11:39 (Ref:2162922)   #5
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Originally Posted by zac510
So what?
Are you sure you're not just a troll?


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Old 27 Mar 2008, 11:40 (Ref:2162924)   #6
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tristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes, it was more meaningful when they used qualifying cars, qualifying tyres, qualifying fuels etc...

See how silly your argument looks now! Did you ever watch F1 in those days?

Having said that, meaningful or meaningless, watching F1 cars in proper qualifying, no compromise, light fuelled trim pushing at 110% is FAR more exciting than watching even great laps with fuel loads and race tyres... Hamilton's lap was special at Silverstone, but wouldn't it have been even better viewing in 'proper' qualifying trim
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:13 (Ref:2162954)   #7
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
He's right in that qualifying is just a pre-lude to the race these days, not an event in its own right....
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:17 (Ref:2162958)   #8
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Originally Posted by Super Hans
There's still plenty of kudos attached to acheiving pole position, in my opinion. Lewis's pole lap at Silverstone was nothing short of exceptional, regardless of fuel-loads, and was probably my viewing highlight of 2007.
Why was it a special lap? its not like he was over a second faster than the next guy on equal load. He was only .150 faster than Alonso in 3rd. Kimi made a mistake at woodcote and ended up a tenth behind, he was also heavier.

You could say Mansells 1992 pole lap was special, some 2 seconds faster than Patrese!
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:27 (Ref:2162967)   #9
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Has Lewis ran light in qualifying more often than anyone else in the top teams?
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:28 (Ref:2162969)   #10
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Originally Posted by al_sami
Why was it a special lap?
Primarily because the Ferrari's were much quicker throughout qualifying, and seemed almost untouchable, until right near the end when Hamilton put in a blinder and nicked the pole, completely out of the blue.
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:35 (Ref:2162977)   #11
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
From a race weekend point of view, qualifying still has "value" for a driver as it allows them to start ahead, on the clean side. And not too bad a bragging right.

From a record books point of view and observer point of view, the value of qualifying has dropped since race-fuel loads are used in Q3. A lighter car will naturally have an advantage, and this is probably so if 2 teammates on different strategy. So in that sense, it's just one more factor to put into consideration when evaluating how good a driver's pole lap is.

It'd be very valuable though if you carry 10 laps more fuel than your competitor and still get pole....
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:37 (Ref:2162982)   #12
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, i don't remember Hamilton's lap at Silverstone, but i'm surprised though that Ferrari is "quicker" in qualifying. Last year was a year where Ferrari generally struggled to get heat/grip in one lap qualifiers, didn't quite remember it being different at Silverstone. I'd need to rewatch the disc if i'm free.
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:43 (Ref:2162990)   #13
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Originally Posted by Gt_R
Well, i don't remember Hamilton's lap at Silverstone, but i'm surprised though that Ferrari is "quicker" in qualifying. .
Why? They scored more pole positions than McLaren in 2007, and at Silverstone the Ferrari was the much quicker car.
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 12:48 (Ref:2162994)   #14
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NAC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridNAC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_sami
I think over the last few years pole position in f1 has no value or meaning other than being able to start the race at the front. Often driver from the top 2 or 3 teams who have the lightest car can get pole. Its not like in the days where the fastest driver was rewarded with pole, like in the days of Senna when he would drive and push the car 110% to get pole.

Now its all fake, last season we saw Lewis get pole on many occasions by having a lighter car. Silverstone was one such example!
Silly question or was it a statement??

What are the stats on Monaco???
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 18:09 (Ref:2163244)   #15
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 23:18 (Ref:2163464)   #16
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Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl
Er...starting the race at the front is quite valuable!
That notion escapes to those less interested in actual racing...
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 23:46 (Ref:2163477)   #17
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Yes it is, but if the driver is some 6 or 7 laps lighter on fuel he scores an own goal when the rest of the drivers pit later!

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Old 28 Mar 2008, 00:20 (Ref:2163489)   #18
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Never mind....
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 03:22 (Ref:2163552)   #19
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Originally Posted by Gt_R
From a race weekend point of view, qualifying still has "value" for a driver as it allows them to start ahead, on the clean side. And not too bad a bragging right.

From a record books point of view and observer point of view, the value of qualifying has dropped since race-fuel loads are used in Q3. A lighter car will naturally have an advantage, and this is probably so if 2 teammates on different strategy. So in that sense, it's just one more factor to put into consideration when evaluating how good a driver's pole lap is.

It'd be very valuable though if you carry 10 laps more fuel than your competitor and still get pole....
I believe at Interlagos, the pole sitter actually starts on the dirty side.
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 08:58 (Ref:2163661)   #20
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jellison has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Like Patrick Head said - Reverse Grids are the way to go.

As long as the best cars are always at the front, they will just **** off and there will be limited overtaking.

THE ONLY ANSWER.

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Old 28 Mar 2008, 09:16 (Ref:2163678)   #21
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Now that might keep me awake for an entire GP...... It'd be like my BRISCA days all over again.......
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 09:26 (Ref:2163689)   #22
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Like Patrick Head said - Reverse Grids are the way to go.

As long as the best cars are always at the front, they will just P*ss off and there will be limited overtaking.

THE ONLY ANSWER.
It is the only answer - even with all the electronics gone it is still as dull as dishwater after the first 10 laps.

Laugh able....

Get rid of more wing and get the braking distances longer. More speed on the straight and less efficient brakes to wash off that higher speed. Next to no margin to pass if guy in front is driving well and not making any mistakes.

Aus was not bad, but Malaysia back to the usual yawn fest.

At least MotoGP is on this weekend.
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 10:08 (Ref:2163717)   #23
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alonso11 has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I remember those epic battles between Hakkkinen and Schumi for pole positions with no fuel-load involved, they were just driving the wheels off their cars to see who can do THE fastest lap... those were the REAL pole positions ... 12 laps (well 3-4 flyers) and show us the maximum you can get out the car.

If we ever wanted to see a real pole position again, Q3 should not involve this fuel-non-sense at all. Q1 and Q2 is good as it is, then Q3 should be a flat-out honest session with no "he got beaten but might have more fuel" thing involved
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 11:44 (Ref:2163769)   #24
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ozrevhead should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
al sami welcome to the forum firstly

secondly in F1 these days, its usually one of the drives finishing top 3 end up winning the race if its not raining so I cant see why it has no value
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 11:48 (Ref:2163771)   #25
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At least MotoGP is on this weekend.
Amen to that my friend!
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