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Old 6 Oct 2013, 12:34 (Ref:3313505)   #1301
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This stuff never happened to Bridgestone products
But Bridgestone weren't given a mandate to make tyres that should provide for at least two stop races. The only reason that anyone had to come into the pits to change the Bridgestone tyres was because the sporting regulations said that you had to use both of Bridgestone's compounds in the races.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 12:48 (Ref:3313512)   #1302
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This stuff never happened to Bridgestone products
It wouldn't happen with Pirelli's if they were running to the same rules that Bridgestone did, but they are not.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 12:55 (Ref:3313514)   #1303
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Chances are that the tyres will be fine and there will even be talk of one stop strategies. Someone will most likely complain.

Pirelli really ought to take just the hard compound tyre to the remaining races, so that we need only then moan about how boring F1 races are becoming.
The tarmac must be smoother there, Korea circuit opens just to host F1 races if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 13:03 (Ref:3313517)   #1304
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The tarmac must be smoother there, Korea circuit opens just to host F1 races if I'm not mistaken.
Suzuka is a bit like Spa. The harder compounds are needed because they are best able to deal with the lateral loads of high speed corners. No one complained about the tyres at Spa, IIRC.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 13:15 (Ref:3313522)   #1305
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Yeah, Spa was ok. I guess it's more of a problem with abrasive tarmacs.
The graining we saw today has not been common since the tyres were modified.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 13:35 (Ref:3313532)   #1306
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Yeah, Spa was ok. I guess it's more of a problem with abrasive tarmacs.
The graining we saw today has not been common since the tyres were modified.
The race temperatures were considerably cooler than in qualifying and the free practice sessions. Perhaps Pirelli were supposed to know this would occur four or five races in advance?
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 13:46 (Ref:3313535)   #1307
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Yeah, Spa was ok. I guess it's more of a problem with abrasive tarmacs.
The graining we saw today has not been common since the tyres were modified.
AOWR in it's various incarnations, CART, IndyCar, races on a greater variety of tracks and track surfaces than F1 but I can't remember there being a situation like this season in F1 with tyres being such a problem.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 14:03 (Ref:3313541)   #1308
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AOWR in it's various incarnations, CART, IndyCar, races on a greater variety of tracks and track surfaces than F1 but I can't remember there being a situation like this season in F1 with tyres being such a problem.
Perhaps. But it's only in the last three seasons of F1 that a tyre supplier was specifically asked to make tyres that degrade so as to improve the 'show'. The overwhelming consensus at the end of the 2010 season was that F1 would be cured of all its ills if the tyres would allow for more than just one pit stop.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 14:18 (Ref:3313543)   #1309
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The race temperatures were considerably cooler than in qualifying and the free practice sessions. Perhaps Pirelli were supposed to know this would occur four or five races in advance?
They know both the track and their tyres, so they should be able to bring the best compounds that suits the track.
But to be fair if it wasn't for Perez locking the wheel like a maniac nothing would've happened. Until that moment the degradation seemed balanced, considering it rained before the race and the track had lost its grip.


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AOWR in it's various incarnations, CART, IndyCar, races on a greater variety of tracks and track surfaces than F1 but I can't remember there being a situation like this season in F1 with tyres being such a problem.
Well, I doubt those suppliers were asked to do cheesy tyres on purpose to improve the show. The FIA is as guilty or more than Pirelli IMO.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 14:26 (Ref:3313546)   #1310
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Perhaps. But it's only in the last three seasons of F1 that a tyre supplier was specifically asked to make tyres that degrade so as to improve the 'show'. The overwhelming consensus at the end of the 2010 season was that F1 would be cured of all its ills if the tyres would allow for more than just one pit stop.
I know Pirelli were asked to make a degradable tyre; just another aspect of the artificiality that's crept into F1, in order to spice it up, something IndyCar hasn't had to, despite the spec nature of the series and they've produced some of the best racing I've seen for a while.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 14:29 (Ref:3313548)   #1311
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They know both the track and their tyres, so they should be able to bring the best compounds that suits the track.
Indeed. They brought exactly the same tyres that they brought last season. Soft and Super-soft. Same construction, same compounds. No one complained. That race was slammed for its mediocrity and, ironically, for the astroturf breaking up. Go figure.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 14:30 (Ref:3313550)   #1312
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Personally I think the FIA should take the tyre choices away from Pirelli and figure out a way to put it into the hands of the team. "Here they are, pick two". I might even go as far as far as allowing them to gamble by trading wet weather tyres for primes before quali. If it rains and you gambled, you're screwed!

While I am far from a Pirelli fan, if the teams made the choices and the tyres didn't give the desired result they would have to assume a large part of the blame instead of always directing it towards Marbot...er I mean Pirelli.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 14:36 (Ref:3313554)   #1313
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I know Pirelli were asked to make a degradable tyre; just another aspect of the artificiality that's crept into F1.
I would also rather Pirelli make tyres that create supposedly boring racing, but every time there is a boring race, people complain. People should be happy that Vettel pulls out a two second lead on the first lap of every race and then continues to build on that two second lead for each and every subsequent lap. People aren't happy when that happens.
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 18:49 (Ref:3313706)   #1314
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I would also rather Pirelli make tyres that create supposedly boring racing, but every time there is a boring race, people complain. People should be happy that Vettel pulls out a two second lead on the first lap of every race and then continues to build on that two second lead for each and every subsequent lap. People aren't happy when that happens.
Why not do what IndyCar does, there's no need for a special tyre to be created? Heaven forbid though F1 should copy anything that goes on in AOWR. Oh I forgot didn't re-fuelling stops, tyre stops and option tyres come from across the pond?
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Old 6 Oct 2013, 19:52 (Ref:3313752)   #1315
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I would also rather Pirelli make tyres that create supposedly boring racing, but every time there is a boring race, people complain. People should be happy that Vettel pulls out a two second lead on the first lap of every race and then continues to build on that two second lead for each and every subsequent lap. People aren't happy when that happens.
Pirelli don't need anyone to tell them how to make tyres,I am sure they know what they need to do..

Tyre testing must return, the whole idea of limited testing is ridicules...
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 13:26 (Ref:3314106)   #1316
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Tyre testing must return, the whole idea of limited testing is ridicules...
Pirelli agrees.

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Old 7 Oct 2013, 13:37 (Ref:3314108)   #1317
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I would also rather Pirelli make tyres that create supposedly boring racing, but every time there is a boring race, people complain. People should be happy that Vettel pulls out a two second lead on the first lap of every race and then continues to build on that two second lead for each and every subsequent lap. People aren't happy when that happens.
They already have made tyres that create boring racing.

Vettel is in the form of his life and has the best car by a distance. He qualifies on pole easily and pulls out an early gap and that's it. Those behind cant throw the kitchen sink at him and bridge the gap because they will kill the tyres doing so. The winning margin is irrelevant.

You need tyres you can lean on. Sure, there will be processions, but you'll also get races like Texas where the drivers can put it all on the line and be on the limit.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 14:40 (Ref:3314126)   #1318
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They already have made tyres that create boring racing.
In your opinion.

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Vettel is in the form of his life and has the best car by a distance.
It's the same car that Webber has. Webber also slated Pirelli for their tyres after yesterdays GP. If it is the best car, then you might at least expect Webber to be following Vettel past the finishing line more often than he is doing.

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He qualifies on pole easily and pulls out an early gap and that's it. Those behind cant throw the kitchen sink at him and bridge the gap because they will kill the tyres doing so. The winning margin is irrelevant.
Mercedes and Red Bull wanted the change to the current tyres. Ferrari, Lotus and Force India, certainly did not. You may be forgiven for thinking that they might have designed their 2013 cars with the original 2013 tyres in mind and that Mercedes were still having issues with overheating their rear tyres.

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You need tyres you can lean on. Sure, there will be processions, but you'll also get races like Texas where the drivers can put it all on the line and be on the limit.
Ironically, Pirelli were slated for being too conservative with those tyres. Maybe it was the unseasonably cold weather in Austin?

I hope that Pirelli go much more conservative with next seasons tyres, if only to make it clearer who is doing the better job with the new rules, but I fear that it will only play to Red Bull's strengths.

Last edited by Marbot; 7 Oct 2013 at 14:48.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 14:50 (Ref:3314130)   #1319
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It's the same car that Webber has. Webber also slated Pirelli for their tyres after yesterdays GP. If it is the best car, then you might at least expect Webber to be following Vettel past the finishing line more often than he is doing.
With the best will in the world, MW isn't driving as well as Vettel this year - I'm not sure anyone is. Even in the same car, Vettel is clearly faster although MW did a great job yesterday - he was quick, and certainly making up a lot of places. If he had put it on the podium (quite possible), he would indeed have been following him across the finish line. The RB is blindingly fast, easily the fastest car out there, and in Vettels hand is unbeatable at the moment. He could easily win the rest of the seasons races.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 15:01 (Ref:3314135)   #1320
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That depends how highly you rate Webber Marbs.

Suffice to say I was never in the camp that absolutely creamed themselves when he was 'destroying' Yoong, Pizzonia, and himself being dominated by Nick Heidfeld. He and Vettel are at opposite ends of the spectrum of talent. You know it. I know it. We all know it. That car is sensational and so is its best driver.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 15:07 (Ref:3314138)   #1321
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If he had put it on the podium (quite possible), he would indeed have been following him across the finish line.
I'm not so sure. When he caught up to the back of the Alonso/Hamilton/Hulkenberg battle, he seemed to be destined to finish in 7th or 8th place. Probably would never have got by Hulkenburg, at best.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 15:10 (Ref:3314139)   #1322
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And that was probably largely down to the tyres. I think Webber is hurt more than anyone when the tyres are a bit iffy. He doesn't qualify well all the time, invariably makes a honking start and is then mired behind cars trying to protect his round black things.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 15:24 (Ref:3314147)   #1323
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And that was probably largely down to the tyres. I think Webber is hurt more than anyone when the tyres are a bit iffy. He doesn't qualify well all the time, invariably makes a honking start and is then mired behind cars trying to protect his round black things.
Yes, it is probably down to the tyres. But it is the same for everyone, so he can't really complain.

He lead the 2010 championship right up until the start of, ironically, the Korean GP, when his talent failed him after the restart of the race. After that he was, again ironically, to miss out on the WDC because of poor tyre strategy.
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Old 7 Oct 2013, 16:57 (Ref:3314202)   #1324
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I'm not so sure. When he caught up to the back of the Alonso/Hamilton/Hulkenberg battle, he seemed to be destined to finish in 7th or 8th place. Probably would never have got by Hulkenburg, at best.
Dunno about that. The RBR appeared quicker out of the corner where the Sauber was turfing LH over, and that corner is why LH wasn't able to overtake - the Sauber was REALLY hooking up well there. I think it would have been different in the RBR, but depends on whether he got past the rest as well!
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Old 8 Oct 2013, 15:50 (Ref:3314666)   #1325
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Pirelli would like tyre changes forced through.

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