BOSS GP

[HaRdCoRe-WeZ]

Here are some photo's from the Nurburgring last Sunday. More pictures on request.

[zeleracing]

Originally Posted by flatbroke

I maybe wrong but I think the judd my be less stressful on the cars than the engines they used in the day .

Judd rev to 12000??
Renault 16000?? with real F1 drivers flat out every lap

I would say Ascari run a tight ship and have been racing with the same cars for many years with much larger budget than most.

Paul Stoddart/european run all his cars with yamaha/judds and they did not break gearboxes!!

a GV4 will rev to 10500 / 11000 max. producing about 730/740 BHP...the lower rpm is mainly an issue for the gears being used...as the ratios have to be completely different to what has been used in F1, where engines revved up to 15 or 16000 rpm.
The bigger issue for the gears and especially also for the diff is the increased torque a bigger capacity engine will deliver. F1 boxes are built to the limit and only strong enough to cope with the avaliable torque the original engine produced.
If you choose a bigger size engine you will use lower revs, but you will end up with 20 or 30% higher torque. This will make gear lifing a big issue, as well as driveshafts and diffs will have a hard time to survive.
Of course the cars a re not driven on their limit all the time, but still the bending reserve of the gears and simply the design of several components will not make it, unless you keep throwing new parts at the car all the time.

[HaRdCoRe-WeZ]

Why don't they use a gearbox which can cope with the extra torque? The Judd's were well used on Le Mans, so there are strong enough gearboxes build/available i suppose.

[flatbroke]

Originally Posted by zeleracing

a GV4 will rev to 10500 / 11000 max. producing about 730/740 BHP...the lower rpm is mainly an issue for the gears being used...as the ratios have to be completely different to what has been used in F1, where engines revved up to 15 or 16000 rpm.
The bigger issue for the gears and especially also for the diff is the increased torque a bigger capacity engine will deliver. F1 boxes are built to the limit and only strong enough to cope with the avaliable torque the original engine produced.
If you choose a bigger size engine you will use lower revs, but you will end up with 20 or 30% higher torque. This will make gear lifing a big issue, as well as driveshafts and diffs will have a hard time to survive.
Of course the cars a re not driven on their limit all the time, but still the bending reserve of the gears and simply the design of several components will not make it, unless you keep throwing new parts at the car all the time.

if it was cheap everyone would be doing it!!!

[zeleracing]

Originally Posted by HaRdCoRe-WeZ

Why don't they use a gearbox which can cope with the extra torque? The Judd's were well used on Le Mans, so there are strong enough gearboxes build/available i suppose.

LMP1 or endurance boxes are a different kettle of fish...bigger, heavier, transverse, not in-line, low instead of high diff - they would heavily interfere with an existing F1 diffuser, not talking about all suspension pickups being different, requiring a complete redesign of the rear suspension, which then means the whole rear end of the car would change including wheelbase, rollcentre, etc etc...

Sportscars are running to a different aero regulation to F1 - it is possible, but you would spend massive amounts of money to make it work...

No matter which way you´re trying to do it... to run a F1 car costs money... some have to learn it the hard way, that it´s not possible to run it cheap

[H.Eng]

[QUOTE=flatbroke;2717016]are the Arrows not carbon wrapped boxes??

No there not just wrapped, they are full carbon boxes with titanium inserts, and the gear ratios are about the same size as formula ford ratios!!!

[flatbroke]

[QUOTE=H.Eng;2717691]

Originally Posted by flatbroke

are the Arrows not carbon wrapped boxes??

No there not just wrapped, they are full carbon boxes with titanium inserts, and the gear ratios are about the same size as formula ford ratios!!!

Titanium bulk heads!

I take it you have the gears crack tested after every weekend or session same with the Carbon suspension ? same with the carbon box!

[zeleracing]

[QUOTE=flatbroke;2717922]

Originally Posted by H.Eng

Titanium bulk heads!

I take it you have the gears crack tested after every weekend or session same with the Carbon suspension ? same with the carbon box!

i´d say crack testing will not prevent from damage...F1 gears have a limited in-gear time...once you exceed it... BANG...and you´ll have public primary shaft-viewing...

seen that happen on X-trac "100-ratio" before...which means the gear has bending reserve for 100km in-gear time...and it´s not 1st or 2nd gear that will give up... it´ll be probably 4th or 5th because there´s less slip and full torque going through the gears...

[flatbroke]

[QUOTE=zeleracing;2717945]

Originally Posted by flatbroke

i´d say crack testing will not prevent from damage...F1 gears have a limited in-gear time...once you exceed it... BANG...and you´ll have public primary shaft-viewing...

seen that happen on X-trac "100-ratio" before...which means the gear has bending reserve for 100km in-gear time...and it´s not 1st or 2nd gear that will give up... it´ll be probably 4th or 5th because there´s less slip and full torque going through the gears...

surely the ratios are new to start the season , same with the bevel gears and diffs and you use a lifeing system ?

[zeleracing]

[QUOTE=flatbroke;2717971]

Originally Posted by zeleracing

surely the ratios are new to start the season , same with the bevel gears and diffs and you use a lifeing system ?

we´re not running any F1 cars at the moment, but that´s what i would suggest...it´s nowhere near as critical on a F3000 or WSbN gearbox...these are pretty much bullet proof (especially when using paddleshift)

The more sophisticated the car becomes, i.e. GP2 or F1, the more work is to be done...and of course frequent replacing and lifing of parts is required. That´s what makes it expensive to run these cars...

[H.Eng]

[QUOTE=flatbroke;2717922]

Originally Posted by H.Eng

Titanium bulk heads!

I take it you have the gears crack tested after every weekend or session same with the Carbon suspension ? same with the carbon box!

Ratios/forks/dog rings etc are checked and cracktested on the sat evening on a two day meeting, or after every 2 sessions, all carbon wishbones have been replaced by steel wishbones,checked and cracktested every 2 meetings, and g/box casing/ diff and bevels checked and crack tested after every meeting.
ratios/forks and dog rings have all been made stronger to increase mileage
as the standard A21 parts would not go behond 200miles, sometimes a lot less!!!
Now we are running to around 550 miles on parts at the moment without to much signs of any damage!!!
You can appreciate that these cars are very difficult to run with 5 people and a very limited budget!!
Must need my f***ing head tested

[HaRdCoRe-WeZ]

Next race: Zolder, who will be there?

[Thundersports]

Not me sadly I enjoy Zolder.

[HaRdCoRe-WeZ]

I enjoy Zolder as well, but i'm not able to make it this weekend. Anyone any news on a (provisional) entry list?

[zeleracing]

BOSS GP 'Open' Class

1 Henk de Boer NL Panoz DP01 Champcar Cosworth 2.8 V8 Turbo 6
2 Marijn van Kalmthout NL Benetton B197 F1 Judd 4.0 V10 7
3 Klaas Zwart NL Ascari Benetton B197 F1 Judd 4.0 V10 1
5 Frits van Eerd NL Tyrrell 026 F1 Cosworth 3.0 V10 5
6 Scott Mansell GB Benetton B199 F1 Judd 4.0 V10 8
8 Ingo Gerstl A Dallara GP2 Renault 4.0 V8 3


BOSS GP 'Masters' Class

21 Karl-Heinz Becker D Dallara Nissan WS Nissan 3.0 V6 4
22 Carlos Antunes Tavares P Dallara Nissan WS Nissan 3.4 V6 9
24 Norbert Gruber A Dallara Nissan WS Nissan 3.0 V6 3 / 4
33 Damien Charveriat F Dallara Nissan WS Nissan 3.0 V6 2
65 Alain DeBlandre B Lola T8900 Indycar Cosworth 2.7 V8 Turbo 10


BOSS GP 'Invitation' Class

32 Gregory Thornton GB Chevron B24 F5000 Chevy 5.0 V8 9 / 10

[Thundersports]

When I suggested smaller cars entering Euroboss/Boss on here I got comprehensively villified over speed diferentials by everyone, now we see a lovely but relatively slow compared to the competition early 70s Chevron F5000 entered! A15 year old F3 car is going to be faster let alone the hybrid F3 and other single seaters I suggested should be allowed. I get an impression that there is a serious lack of entrants for this new "it'll be better than Euroboss" series...........

[Thundersports]

I didn't think any answers would be forthcoming!

[esper]

I got to know Greg in Dijon and saw him racing his formula Ford, Well If I can find the time I go and have a look at zolder , Greg could shake the egos of some other racers I think! After all you other posters it would be nicer to be a bit positive to all big open single seater classes. All the dirt here keeps guys who would be interested in racing younger big single seaters away from it! Is that what you all want??? Keep up the fun if you know what that is!!!!

[SLK55]

Wow ! Thats gotta be the smallest field ever. Normally 4 or 5 can be discounted from the "Provisional" list too.
Take away the 4 guys that are bankrolling it and you are left with 2 cars (maybe) in the Open class.
Its beginning to look like this split has not worked as anticipated.

[zeleracing]

Originally Posted by SLK55

Wow ! Thats gotta be the smallest field ever. Normally 4 or 5 can be discounted from the "Provisional" list too.
Take away the 4 guys that are bankrolling it and you are left with 2 cars (maybe) in the Open class.
Its beginning to look like this split has not worked as anticipated.

well....so far all but 2 or 3 turned up...which will make it a 10 car max. grid for tomorrow...

i sincerely hope the whole situation will somehow recover... some more entries would not harm for the next two EB races in August...

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by esper

I got to know Greg in Dijon and saw him racing his formula Ford, Well If I can find the time I go and have a look at zolder , Greg could shake the egos of some other racers I think! After all you other posters it would be nicer to be a bit positive to all big open single seater classes. All the dirt here keeps guys who would be interested in racing younger big single seaters away from it! Is that what you all want??? Keep up the fun if you know what that is!!!!

I was merely stating fact looking at the small entry I wasn't being negative I think we all want both series to be a success as our common interest on here is seeing big single seater racing. And I know what fun is thank you.

SLK55 the smallest entry was for the CSMA meeting at Brands Hatch a few years a go; 4 cars due to various reasons however the race was an entertaining one run on the Indy circuit with a great 3 way battle between Hansfords Arrows, Paul Smiths Simtek and Joachim Ryschkas G-Force. The highlight of that race was Scott Mansell breaking the outright lap record in his Benetton.

[zeleracing]

BossGP Zolder results Saturday:

Free Practice:

1. van Kalmthout - 1:19:141
2. Zwart - 1:20:792
3. Gerstl - 1:22:112
4. de Boer - 1:24:214
5. Charveriat - 1:27:105
6. Becker - 1:27:927
7. Tavares - 1:30:640
8. de Blandre - 1:34:553
9. Thornton - 1:50:754

Qualifying:

1. van Kalmthout - 1:17:985 P1 open
2. Zwart - 1:18:401
3. Gerstl - 1:21:923
4. de Boer - 1:23:358
5. Charveriat - 1:25:988 P1 masters
6. Becker - 1:27:152
7. Tavares - 1:28:826
8. De Blandre - 1:33:228
9. Thornton - 1:37:025

[SLK55]

I was right then, take the 4 that bankroll Boss away and you would have been left with 1 car in the open class.....hardly a sparkling grid really. Such a shame.

[courageous]

Anyone can point out a problem, but can anyone provide a solution for BIG OSS (as a sportscar fan, I am personally not against racing alongside SOSS, but those with the money & influence seem adament they don't want it)

[zeleracing]

Race 1

1. Van Kalmthout
2. Gerstl
3. De Boer
4. Becker
5. Charveriat
6. Tavares
7. DeBlandre

dnf:

Zwart (spun off turn 3)
Thornton (technical problem)

race 2 starts @ 5:30 p.m.