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Old 16 Oct 2017, 17:07 (Ref:3774523)   #3091
HORNDAWG
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HORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
A little sour grapes from Hugues de Chaunac about the upgrade which has always been part of the formula. ELMS is the most obvious example to draw from as there are 3 of the 4 cars represented there. The 4 chassis do run in IWSC but not all of them are at their base P2 configuration.











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Old 16 Oct 2017, 17:40 (Ref:3774527)   #3092
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AoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, you could've burnt up your own joker if you'd wanted, sir.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 17:45 (Ref:3774528)   #3093
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I don't believe you can do it at any time. It's got to be approved by the ACO and because of a performance deficit.

Worlds smallest violin for Hugues. We all knew this was a possibility - in fact most of us predicted this would be the case. And we knew what the ACOs reaction would be, and that's exactly what happened. Whilst we should never be in this position, the ACO has at least done what they said they would do.

We all know the Oreca is the best chassis. Sometimes others get close, but none can match it consistently. The Dallara can do so in medium-high downforce, but it has a very small operating window to fit into. And if they did allow Oreca to update then it'd be pointless, as they'd all move forward and Oreca would still be ahead, and we'd have spent money for nothing.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 17:54 (Ref:3774529)   #3094
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No, they can't. That's why he's peeved. In ELMS there was a Dallara on the podium every race but RBR and the wins were split 2/2/1 anyways. The only car that's uncompetitive is the Riley, ORECA is just more sorted across track types, an advantage that probably would have naturally eroded from everyone using non-BoP'd jokers.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 18:30 (Ref:3774536)   #3095
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If they get shafted in '18, they can just use theirs then and dominate '19 and on.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3774537)   #3096
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No, they can't. That's why he's peeved. In ELMS there was a Dallara on the podium every race but RBR and the wins were split 2/2/1 anyways. The only car that's uncompetitive is the Riley, ORECA is just more sorted across track types, an advantage that probably would have naturally eroded from everyone using non-BoP'd jokers.
Oreca is leagues ahead of other cars. The ACO has the data to back it up. Using team results from just the ELMS isn't fair. There's no other car running in the WEC besides Oreca's, and that's because it's the best package. Look at Le Mans, every car was behind the Oreca. Maybe the Dallara had better top speed, but they were a lot slower in lap time. A Ligier entered at Spa's WEC round and was nowhere. Oreca has no reason to cry about this. Their car has more sales than any p2 and I wouldn't be suprised if it's twice the amount of the other's combined. A monopoly on an equalized class is never good. The same complaint was made with WTR's Cadillac in DPi.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 18:42 (Ref:3774539)   #3097
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No, they can't. That's why he's peeved. In ELMS there was a Dallara on the podium every race but RBR and the wins were split 2/2/1 anyways. The only car that's uncompetitive is the Riley, ORECA is just more sorted across track types, an advantage that probably would have naturally eroded from everyone using non-BoP'd jokers.
I don't think there is such a thing as a non BoP'd joker though? This is the joker that was talked about at the start. The cars are homologated and can't be changed. You need the ACO to ok an update, and if they don't then tough. Strictly speaking it isn't a BoP as performance has to be gained through development, not just having weight taken out.

Race results at face value don't tell the true story. The Dallara may have been on the podium at Spa, but it had a slower average lap time (2:09.8 compared with Oreca 2:08.9, Ligier 2:09.1) than the other cars and only got a podium because the team executed the strategy well. The Dallara can be fast, but only on very specific circumstances as it has a tiny operating window.

The Dallara was unable to to update just one aero kit as well, as the stability problems it has comes from a shared part. So the Dallara had to do an all or nothing.

https://drracing.wordpress.com/

I highly recommend DrRacing blog for some in depth analysis. There's some great stuff which basically concludes the Oreca has a significant advantage in most areas.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 18:57 (Ref:3774543)   #3098
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Coach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCoach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCoach Ep should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Btw, this is much more ACO regulated series stuff than DPi (or even IMSA).
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 19:00 (Ref:3774544)   #3099
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It should be noted that under this Dallara can also update their sprint kit, something they initially weren't going to be allowed to do by the ACO.

And within context of this thread, it means that ESM and Cadillac will probably have to update their DPIs. This is due to an agreement between IMSA and the ACO that allows DPI teams to get the same updates as the ACO spec cars.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 19:47 (Ref:3774552)   #3100
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Btw, this is much more ACO regulated series stuff than DPi (or even IMSA).
No it is not. All P2s that run in IWSC are directly affected by this, as well as any part of 3 of the 4 DPis, that are not already altered via the DPi conversion .




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Old 16 Oct 2017, 19:48 (Ref:3774553)   #3101
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It should be noted that under this Dallara can also update their sprint kit, something they initially weren't going to be allowed to do by the ACO.

And within context of this thread, it means that ESM and Cadillac will probably have to update their DPIs. This is due to an agreement between IMSA and the ACO that allows DPI teams to get the same updates as the ACO spec cars.
As well as the updates to the R/M Mk.30 - RT24-P.




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Old 16 Oct 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3774558)   #3102
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No it is not. All P2s that run in IWSC are directly affected by this, as well as any part of 3 of the 4 DPis, that are not already altered via the DPi conversion .
ACO jokers. In more ways than one. That's all.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 21:51 (Ref:3774564)   #3103
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As well as the updates to the R/M Mk.30 - RT24-P.




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Sort of already implied when we all know that Multimatic will be probably re-homologating the whole car at the end of the day because it's such junk.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 09:02 (Ref:3774612)   #3104
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There's no other car running in the WEC besides Oreca's, and that's because it's the best package.
I didn't know a time machine was standard WEC team equipment.

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A monopoly on an equalized class is never good.
Good thing LMP2 wasn't an equalized class until two weeks ago.

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I don't think there is such a thing as a non BoP'd joker though?
Not anymore. When the joker started being brought up it was made to sound like one free upgrade for each four years. There's another provision in the regulations to allow a performance evolution at any time if the car is **** pending consultation with the other constructors. That's the one Ligier tried to use at Le Mans to save their "joker".

Inherently unless you're totally FUBAR like the Riley, a single upgrade to a homologated car is going to favour the constructors that are behind catching up because they have clear areas for improvement compared to the leader and more economic impetus to act on it (you don't have unlimited R&D budget for a cost capped customer program, remember). Especially considering the ORECA is already a very heavily developed car, this being the third iteration and fourth year for that base car.
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Old 17 Oct 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3774616)   #3105
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I counter with saying that it stills favors the team that started ahead because they only have one season (in this case, '18) before they can integrate whatever evolutions their rivals have created (as applicable to them) and then get back out front with all the constructors' jokers used.
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