European Late Model Series - Page 4

chunder · 20 Mar 2009, 17:10 (Ref:2420362)

Am sure one of these cars doesnt COST 3 grand mate

And a compaison with stick hatch is hardly fair! They might not be as exciting, but for many years that series has been over subscribed and been one of the most succesful series in UK racing!!

I ahve no issue with the series or the cars, just the general opinion that oval racing in Europe can ever be succesful!

It is in America, but they dont know any better! And its VERY VERY regional!

andy97 · 20 Mar 2009, 17:28 (Ref:2420373)

To be fair, he didn't say it did; just that the costs of racing the car (presumably once you have purchased it) are £3K a year.

kelvin88 · 20 Mar 2009, 17:35 (Ref:2420378)

No it doesn't cost three grand to buy but that is about what it costs to run. I bet you can still by an ASCAR for less than 8 grand and thats cheap for for a 450 bhp race car. Throw in your free tyres and prize money and its a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned. And how do you rate the success of a series? By the number of drivers that pay to go do it or how many people pay to go and watch it? If its the former then yeah, i guess your right, i should quit and buy a Saxo!

Matt · 20 Mar 2009, 18:32 (Ref:2420408)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

It is in America, but they dont know any better!

Wow, way to be closed minded. I take offense to that.

R59 · 21 Mar 2009, 11:42 (Ref:2420877)

I agree Kelvyn, your running costs are a fraction of what we're used to spending. Each round at Rockingham was costing me around £2000 where half of that was the entry fee. And I was a cheapskate!

Yes there are some cars up for grabs that you may be able to pick up for sub-£8K - which is a total bargain. If you broke them the engine is worth a minimum of £5K, the gearbox £3K, axle £1500, brakes, wheels, etc......

Chunder, when you say it's regional in the colonies, you forget that one state in many cases is far bigger than the UK, and if it runs over the East Coast states, it will be bigger - far bigger - than anything we can run in Europe.

Chunder me ol' duck, the other big difference is that we have poxy football (soccer to the colonials) which is the be-all and end-all of public facing sport. Motorsport is a small fringe activity which is has no mass media interest, other than Max Mosely's choice of private entertainment, and to that end is ignored by the public. In the 'States, NASCAR is the second biggest TV spectator sport, with their drivers being some of the biggest household names, with mass following. Therefore, grassroots motorsport over there is much much bigger, so much bigger than anything we're used to over here.

To get to that stage over here in Europe will be a very very difficult task. Eurocar started it, ASCAR kicked it forwards big time in the UK - regardless of what you think - only the MSA and the blazer wearing clubs have undermined it. ASCAR's problem is that it tried to be too big too quick using other people's money. Then again, take away the manufacturer's money from the BTCC and what would happen to that? Without that big money behind it, there would be no marketing, the public interest would wane and once more kicking a pigs bladder around would become more important.

I could go on, and on, and on. There are soooo many reasons why it should succeed, and so many why it could fall flat.

Oh yes, Eurocars with Pontiac and Toyota bodies - this was the BRSCC when it ceased being Eurocar and became VSR's - they meddled with the rules (as usual) and broke it (as usual).

Minicross424 · 23 Mar 2009, 08:08 (Ref:2422483)

Chunder, i respect your comments but i think you better say sorry to our usa friend Matt or refrase your answer!

chunder · 23 Mar 2009, 13:40 (Ref:2422743)

I think people over estimate NASCAR popularity, its only the same as F1 may be in parts of Europe

Trying to say its as popular as footie is here or nearly, is surely wide of the mark. NBA, Yank football, baseball, ice hockey are very popular too.

Over here we only really have football, rugby and perhaps cricket as very popular sports and obviously horse racing for the greedy

A lot of our sport is participant based like angling, golf, equestrianism.

I respectfully disagree about ASCAR too, the organisation was appalling, too many people trying to make a quick buck as is always the case and the grids were never really that high. Initially it looekd great, but the racing (by whcih most new series are judged) was never that great and that is down to the tracks.

I feelsad that your series has to race on short ovals with bangers etc, it really is not your "true home"

AS you know in the US there are zillions of series like this and they prosper, nit sure what teh answer is but good luck anyway.

Minicross424 · 23 Mar 2009, 16:19 (Ref:2422870)

Chunder i would not class £20,000 National Hot Rods as Bangers
Have you ever attended the world championships at Ipswich?
Ok its no Brands Hatch but they do there best with what return they get from gate money.
Remember they do not charge entry fees.
If money was no object i would have one circuit car and one oval racer.
Also i did not start my racing in go karts but on grass ovals and it was a great learning curve.
Not looking for an arguement just wanted to put my point accross

chunder · 23 Mar 2009, 16:49 (Ref:2422887)

You don't have to preach to me, I am a fan of short oval racing, but not Hot Rods, they are far too expensive for what they are!! I have been to most tracks in the UK and some in Holland and havent been circuit racing for some 10 years! I saw the light!

I prefer the full contact formulae, but not bangers, they are truly awful, serving a purpose admittedly, but the principal reason why short oval racing has such an awful image. This is why I dont like Hot Rods, getting used to putting the bumper in just adds so much to the racing, though a good Hot Rod race is still better than most other world racing

I would never race circuits now, I don't see why a huge chunk of my budget should go on admin and paying the one place that makes money year on year!! The MSA!!

Matt · 23 Mar 2009, 18:00 (Ref:2422926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

I think people over estimate NASCAR popularity, its only the same as F1 may be in parts of Europe

Trying to say its as popular as footie is here or nearly, is surely wide of the mark. NBA, Yank football, baseball, ice hockey are very popular too.

Over here we only really have football, rugby and perhaps cricket as very popular sports and obviously horse racing for the greedy

A lot of our sport is participant based like angling, golf, equestrianism.

I respectfully disagree about ASCAR too, the organisation was appalling, too many people trying to make a quick buck as is always the case and the grids were never really that high. Initially it looekd great, but the racing (by whcih most new series are judged) was never that great and that is down to the tracks.

I feelsad that your series has to race on short ovals with bangers etc, it really is not your "true home"

AS you know in the US there are zillions of series like this and they prosper, nit sure what teh answer is but good luck anyway.

No, over here, NASCAR IS the second most popular sport, behind NFL Football, in ratings.

chunder · 23 Mar 2009, 19:30 (Ref:2422978)

I admit in ratings on tv maybe

But so many people play football, rugby, fishing etc without having to shell out money on a race car

I guess NASCAR must be more popular than I think, I think its deadly boring most of te time to be honest, and no wonder it hasnt really caught on over here!!

When you consider how popular US football is over here, its amazing how utterly unpopular NASCAR is with our heritage for racing.

We ahve sold out our in season game already for NFL yet ASCAR was only a quarter full at best,even if we got NASCAR to Rockingham I think it would be a struggle to sell it out!

kelvin88 · 23 Mar 2009, 20:45 (Ref:2423032)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

I think its deadly boring most of te time to be honest, and no wonder it hasnt really caught on over here!!

Why are you here, then? I'm all for everyone having an opinion but apart from insulting Americans and telling us what we do is ****, why are you in this forum? I don't like formula 1 but i dont bowl it around their forum shouting about it.

Rockingham was a bad deal, it has been covered in many a thread as I said at the start. It does not need covering again.
Short track racing does very nicely in this country thanks very much. We are not trying to re-invent NASCAR we are just giving people a place to race this type of car in Europe without it costing an arm and a leg. You think I'm wasting my time, point taken.
You can go now.

**FIRE** · 23 Mar 2009, 20:55 (Ref:2423040)

US football isn't popular in Europe. Last year the NFL has shutdown NFL Europe. The UK based team was already gone long before. And comparing 1 NFL game a year with ASCAR.

Are you serious? You can't compare NFL with ASCAR. If NASCAR would come to Rockingham or Lausitz I am sure there would be a lot of interest.

chunder · 23 Mar 2009, 21:32 (Ref:2423073)

Ok maybe a bad example of a comparison, it seems you can't do that kind of thing on forums as people just get uppity, just a thinking out loud deal.

I was comparing the popularity of sports in the US to Europe rather then European NFL, the in season game played at Wembley sold out in weeks, I can't imagine a NASCAR event in Europe selling out at all is my point

And 88, I dont think you are wasting your time, was just adding some voice to the discussion, as usual when people are involved its very difficult to not appear overly critical. Just find it sad that you are racing quite trick cars on circuits that dont really suit them, but you gotta do it huh.

The point for me is that I love short oval but the longer stuff has never caught my eye, not sure why, maybe its the contact!

**FIRE** · 24 Mar 2009, 10:44 (Ref:2423469)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

I was comparing the popularity of sports in the US to Europe rather then European NFL, the in season game played at Wembley sold out in weeks, I can't imagine a NASCAR event in Europe selling out at all is my point

I am not sure about that.

Were the CART races at Lausitz and Rockingham a success?

chunder · 24 Mar 2009, 10:59 (Ref:2423481)

FIRE well am not too suer about the German races as I did not go

But the UK race was a farce,. first time round the track was weeping ater on to the line and despit a decent crowd the races were a bit of a letdown and I cant even rememebr if they ran properly or not, was only a week before Zanardis accident aswell so that tends to cloud everything

Second year was OK, but aain crowd was small for what it was, start straight was OK, but bends bleachers were not full

AS I understand their biggest crowd there was for eitehr BTCC or BSB?

Minicross424 · 24 Mar 2009, 17:03 (Ref:2423744)

The ASCAR meetings broke the record for attendance during 2004 i think for a national event.
50,000, i remember them saying it.
Such a shame it all ended.
Any news on the Lydden events Kelvin?

duke_toaster · 24 Mar 2009, 17:25 (Ref:2423767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

US football isn't popular in Europe. Last year the NFL has shutdown NFL Europe. The UK based team was already gone long before. And comparing 1 NFL game a year with ASCAR.

Are you serious? You can't compare NFL with ASCAR. If NASCAR would come to Rockingham or Lausitz I am sure there would be a lot of interest.

Off topic comment alert
I have to type this or my brain will explode!

No-one knows why the Monarchs were shut down. It wasn't helpful that the team was moved around when they were badged up as England, neither did freezing the league for two years! The decision was especially weirder bearing in mind they kept the Claymores for a while longer.

NFL Europa supposedly was making a loss, albeit a dinky one - I head less than $32 million a year. That is less than a million US dollars a year with teams with that sorts of bank balances.

The NFL seem to be making noises about putting an actual team in London within ten years. I don't think that would work unless they were to stick some other teams in Europe for travel reasons. I guess International Series games in other European countries would work, I'm specifically thinking about Germany here. Channel Five have dropped their coverage of Monday Night Football, but speculation on Digital Spy (read : take it with tonnes of salt) is that the BBC or ITV want it. The BBC have shown the Super Bowl recently as well as the Wembley game. ITV did the Super Bowl a while ago, don't see why they would want regular season games!

Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic

chancey854 · 24 Mar 2009, 20:02 (Ref:2423879)

We ahve sold out our in season game already for NFL yet ASCAR was only a quarter full at best,even if we got NASCAR to Rockingham I think it would be a struggle to sell it out![/quote]

If nascar did come to rockingham i have no doubt it would sell out!! Nascar is very popular over here, more so now with the sky tv coverage. There would be way more interest in a nascar race because of the big names such as scott speed and montoya.

Go to any short oval and theres nascar apparell everwhere, its what we relate to. Yeah bangers dont do much for the sport but people are trying to change that.

i went to see ascar at rockingham and yeah your right the stands wernt full, but compared to most circuits(where you have to stand climb and squeeze in, like at croft, ) rockingham has a massive stand therefore you need twice the amount of people at any other event to make it look full. I travelled from the north east to go see ascar and it was great.

the tv package for ascar was terrible, and major sponsers wernt interested. The guys who drove in ascar did put on a good show and the cars sounded amazing, it a shame it all went pair shaped.

I carnt wait for this new series to kick off, hopefully it will revive the interest ascar once had and go one better, i can relate to this type of racing, i race a short oval hot rod myself, more then i can any circuit series and wish it all the success

kelvin88 · 1 Apr 2009, 10:24 (Ref:2430449)

We got an ASCAR and a CAMSO V8 testing back to back at the weekend and we are pleased to announce we can get them both to be competetive WITHOUT taking weight from the ASCAR and WITHOUT adding weight to the CAMSOs! I am chuffed to bits because it means everyone has got less work than they thought. We have a set up now to get the ASCAR drivers started, we may have to cap their revs or find stuff to make the CAMSO cars go faster as the season goes on, but for Easter, we are all set!

chunder · 1 Apr 2009, 11:56 (Ref:2430522)

Shock horror I read on an oval forum that the BriSCA F1 world final has been opened up to allcomers!!

Can you guys fit shale tyres?

**FIRE** · 1 Apr 2009, 16:50 (Ref:2430712)

What's the race format? Two or three 15~20 minutes sprint races?

kelvin88 · 1 Apr 2009, 17:31 (Ref:2430742)

For us or for the BriSCA world?

chunder · 1 Apr 2009, 17:43 (Ref:2430749)

25 laps, give the CAMSO a lap start and maybe we will put some arfences infront of teh barriers for them.

Do they bounce well?

**FIRE** · 1 Apr 2009, 18:08 (Ref:2430761)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelvin88

For us or for the BriSCA world?

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