[FIA GT] Blancpain Endurance Series 2011

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by rich07

Another SRO series? Good luck on trying to fill the grid.

This one would be a North American GT-3 Series.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...ORTS/101109877

(sorry in advance if this pulls the thread off topic).

[JAG]

Audi Sport boss Wolfgang Ullrich said he supports any move that will allow the R8 LMS GT3 car to race in the United States and Canada. He noted that he prefers a stand-alone series, rather than allowing the R8 to join Grand-Am's GT class--a move that Grand-Am is considering.

What's this, a pincer movement on GA from DTM and SRO!

[NaBUru38]

HJJ, let's move that news to this thread, ok?

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Acid09

So the ALMS dosen't get mayor media coverage?

No.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

HJJ, let's move that news to this thread, ok?

That fine with me. I didn't really know where to put it in the first place.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by kyoung

I have no problem with gentlemen drivers, only drivers who think other competitors should be artificially slowed so they can win, that (IMHO) is not racing.

That is such an old way of thinking, nobody knows if Sports Car racing would be successful without any Gentlemen Drivers. The ALMS is the closest to an all-pro series. When the Gentlemen are on circuit they are the slowest in terms of lap speed and lap times.

Yes mostly Rich men start racing teams because Banks don't consider it a legitimate business until you have won, won quite a bit and have cache to build on.

Also as Duncan Dayton has pointed out, how many have developed a business plan to setup a racing team???? Almost none... Its a very "seat of the pants" business.

Just look at the Spa 24 entry from earlier this year. How many GT2 cars where in it, 6? How many GT3 cars? A ton, they made up the majority of the field. If you add 6 more GT3 cars, then you won't be missing anything. It won't be any less exciting either. At times the racing in FIA GT3 was better than the big dog GT1 series.

I just believe its popular to pile on Ratel when you don't agree with the direction of his series.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by d.rocky

For me gt/sportscar racing is endurance...

Ratel shouldnt be coming up with new championships for 'teams that want to run their cars in races longer than the current one-hour sprint races' the GT1 ect ect championships should have longer races than an 1 measly hour!
Cant help think theres no need for this... time will tell.

Why to people complain about race distances?

SRO had a successful series that has a decent following in Europe. He wanted to expand it into a Word Championship but still wanted to make it accessible. I think on all accounts he's done that.

Can the series use some tweaks? Sure. I think we all agree the races at least the Championship race should be longer since it rewards with more points.

More cars would be good, an LFA would be welcome, so would the BMW M6.

An event in the US would be excellent especially with the HUGE gap thanks to the ACO provided a gulf of time between Long Beach and Lime Rock in July.

Grand Am doesn't draw flies but I bet World GT 1 would out draw it if it was at the right circuit and promoted.

[kyoung]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

That is such an old way of thinking, nobody knows if Sports Car racing would be successful without any Gentlemen Drivers. The ALMS is the closest to an all-pro series. When the Gentlemen are on circuit they are the slowest in terms of lap speed and lap times.

Yes mostly Rich men start racing teams because Banks don't consider it a legitimate business until you have won, won quite a bit and have cache to build on.

Also as Duncan Dayton has pointed out, how many have developed a business plan to setup a racing team???? Almost none... Its a very "seat of the pants" business.

Just look at the Spa 24 entry from earlier this year. How many GT2 cars where in it, 6? How many GT3 cars? A ton, they made up the majority of the field. If you add 6 more GT3 cars, then you won't be missing anything. It won't be any less exciting either. At times the racing in FIA GT3 was better than the big dog GT1 series.

I just believe its popular to pile on Ratel when you don't agree with the direction of his series.

Maybe a more purist way of thinking, I didn’t say get rid of gentlemen drivers, I just think they should have to compete at the same level as the rest of the field. Driver rankings are ridiculous, rankings snub any incentive for a driver to improve and open the door for sandbagging. I don’t see them putting ankle weights on Olympic runners so older runners can be competitive. Marco Holzer is categorized as a Gold rated driver; do you honestly believe he is any better than Hohenadel or Keilwitz? By the way; congratulations to Christian Hohenadel on his Michelin Award and subsequent boot up to GT1.

The reason you didn’t see more GT2 cars at SPA is because manufacturers are not going to commit to a series with such ludicrous rules that change at a moment’s notice. If you think that artificially slowing teams to create “drama” is good racing then you are probably happy with the status quo. I would prefer real racing where it is incumbent on the teams to improve to win by adjusting setups, making less mistakes, and improving their driving or changing drivers if they must.

The problem I have with Ratel is his distorted view of what racing is/should be; he is all about Ratel/SRO, not racing (IMHO).

[Speed-King]

2011 Blancpain Endurance Series
17th April Monza Italy
22nd May Navarra Spain
30th July Total 24 Hours of Spa Belgium
27th August Magny Cours France
9th October Silverstone Great Britain


Source


Really hoped for a round in Germany... oh well, guess I'll have to do with VLN.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Article taken offline at the SRO websites and Planetlemans.

Official announcements at a later moment.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Joe Taylor

Without Gentleman Drivers, there would be no sportscar series of any description.

I'm really tired of this protectionist racket of a previous era.

Name all the competitive Owner-Owned and Driven Cars, - GO!

Drayson would have not even podium in 2008 and never did in GT2. Despite one Darren Turner turning in some reasonable lap times at Petit in 2009, he was off the pace. Just as he was at the start of his stint at Road America where the Porsche coughed going into Canada corner and they won.

There are no Gentlemen Driven cars in GT2 that are competitive anyway, if you took away the Robertson's and Nieman, only 2 cars would drop away from the GT2 field.

Would you really miss Intersport or Autocon?

When is the purist part of the fan base going to wake up and agree this is a professional series and should be treated as such and not a glorified club racing event where professional teams are dumbed down for the sake of men in their late 50's and 60's can bump elbows with professional drivers.

Strakka would have had a serious dog fight on their hands if coolant issues didn't plague Highcroft as Brabs was catching them as Nick was loosing time in the car. Not to mention they had a "perfect race" not even ONE flat tire as well, I doubt they'll be able to repeat such a flawless race.

Throughout most of the season Johnny et-al were in the zone, they were clearly the fastest drivers in the fastest LMP car last season.

So I given you the one-offs, but what about all these other Gentlemen Drivers out there? I'll give you another one Prospeed GT3 Champions.

[AndrewF31]

You seem to forget that Seth drives one car but sponsors 2. If he was 'forced' to stop driving do you think he'd keep his team going?
Prospeed is the same thing: 2 cars with one car used by the owners.

Another... Felbermayr.
In conclusion, it's the model used by Porsche, because for Ferrari, you don't see as much except for Tim Mullen / Chris Niarchos in the CRS.
Porsche doesn't provide all the money, privateers provide a part of the funding and have the legitimate right to want to drive their own cars. They know the consequence and, in most cases, they try to consolidate this with 2 car teams. It becomes more complicated when only 1 car goes to Le Mans, the biggest of the playgrounds out there.

If you had the money to sponsor a team like this, dj4, I would bet a lot of money that you would be incapable of resisting the tempation of having the chance at running at Le Mans for 24 hours.

[kyoung]

This is the problem as I see it; it is OK if gentlemen drivers want to compete. They have every right to compete if they invest money and time in the sport. What they shouldn’t have the right to do is have cars with more talented drivers loaded with ballast and restrictors so they can keep pace. Racing is a competition, not an activity to boost the morale and mental well being of well to do Walter Mittys. If you want to race in GT3 you should have to take your chances like every other driver. If you want to win you should have to improve your driving or consider a different venue/outlet for your racing fix, there are many. The SRO/FIA kept adding weight and restrictors to the Z06R in GT3 even after its top speed was slower than half the cars out there because the Callaway drivers were just better and made few mistakes. They essentially took a fast and talented team and slowed them to assure they could not win, and even then certain gentlemen drivers still couldn’t keep it on the track. It took 80KG, plus success ballast and 3 restrictor changes to get the desired outcome. In the meantime any Z06R running in an SRO/FIA event got the ballast and restrictors whether they were winning or not. The other Z06Rs with less talent and luck just fell to the back of the pack because a gentlemen driver couldn’t keep his car on the track.

[Speed-King]

You are forgetting one thing: FIA GT3 is designed as a playground for amateurs - there shouldn't be any all-pro-lineups in there at all. What Callaway did was an endrun around the rules, nothing more and nothing less.

There are series for all-pro-lineups, but FIA GT3 is not one of them... it's been a while since I've been really interested in our local football team here, but I think in lower football leagues you have certain limitations on the use of paid professionals as well - so that's not something that is completely alien in other sports.

[kyoung]

That’s absurd, what do you call Holzer, Makowiecki, and Huertgen; they are all gold rated drivers? Hohenadel and Keilwitz were rated silver if you believe that sort of thing (I don’t).Makowiecki would step out of the GT3 car right into the GT1 car for Hexis. GT3 is not a race for amateurs; it’s a race where close to production cars run to contain costs. Again, driver ratings are idiotic, learn to be a better driver in a lower level and then move up as your skill improves. The minute they start broadcasting something and taking money for advertising the amateur status goes out the window. Be a true competitor or get out of the way; at least Ernst Wohr and Giovanni Ciccone don’t insist on driving.

[NaBUru38]

What entries could we see in this championship?

[Speed-King]

Suppossedly, there's some good interest in it, but I haven't heard from a lot of teams. Phoenix have said that they'd be interested in it, as have WRT, so we'd have a few Audis already.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by kyoung

That’s absurd, what do you call Holzer, Makowiecki, and Huertgen; they are all gold rated drivers? Hohenadel and Keilwitz were rated silver if you believe that sort of thing (I don’t).Makowiecki would step out of the GT3 car right into the GT1 car for Hexis. GT3 is not a race for amateurs; it’s a race where close to production cars run to contain costs. Again, driver ratings are idiotic, learn to be a better driver in a lower level and then move up as your skill improves. The minute they start broadcasting something and taking money for advertising the amateur status goes out the window. Be a true competitor or get out of the way; at least Ernst Wohr and Giovanni Ciccone don’t insist on driving.

I would argue Csaba Walter is not a "Bronze Rated" driver but he is and has been pretty much the same pace as Huertgen all season. I'm sure with one season under his belt, he'll be uprated.

I am not against Pro-Am drivers as a whole, Narac is very quick for somebody does not make a living doing this and so is Taxis. They are not keeping talent drivers out of seats (1) and (2) they are entering cars into series. Other Amateur drivers cause delays and accidents usually their own but collect somebody else. Fairly you can blame pros for putting the car in places they likely shouldn't but in the heat of the moment you're trying to keep a lead or catch somebody for position you can't let somebody hold you up.

So contact fouls are justified that is the great equalizer.

Club Racing or Single Make Club Racing usually has very strict contact rules and there's also a wide gulf between people just tutoring around and those that should really be in a series like World Challenge, Grand Am Cup or GT3...

[Birddog07]

Really I think they have it wrong. GT4 should be for all lower level ametuers with some performance ballancing, GT3 for higher ranked more experienced alongside a pro, no stupid restrictions, and GT2 obviously all out pro efforts by manufactuers. I have no idea about GT1 or a world championship.

I think if Ratel ran this format then his new endurance series could be very popular, add in Germany too. A race in all the heavy hitter Europen nations, but not Germany?

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

SRO had a successful series that has a decent following in Europe. He wanted to expand it into a Word Championship but still wanted to make it accessible. I think on all accounts he's done that.

We'll see next season won't we!

Originally Posted by dj4monie

More cars would be good, an LFA would be welcome, so would the BMW M6.

Not going to happen and.......not going to happen

Originally Posted by dj4monie

An event in the US would be excellent especially with the HUGE gap thanks to the ACO provided a gulf of time between Long Beach and Lime Rock in July.

Not going to happen

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Grand Am doesn't draw flies but I bet World GT 1 would out draw it if it was at the right circuit and promoted.

Since it isn't coming to North America your stake is safe (but pointless!)

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

That is such an old way of thinking, nobody knows if Sports Car racing would be successful without any Gentlemen Drivers.

Strange then that all major sportscar race organisers go to great lengths to attract them!!

Originally Posted by dj4monie

The ALMS is the closest to an all-pro series. When the Gentlemen are on circuit they are the slowest in terms of lap speed and lap times.

Really! You don't say!! Now there's a thing!!!

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Just look at the Spa 24 entry from earlier this year. How many GT2 cars where in it, 6?

Nope 8 - Plus the pair of pseudo GT2 BMWs - not bad considering the mess SRO made of GT2 coming into the year

Originally Posted by dj4monie

How many GT3 cars? A ton,

Actually 21 - just 79 short!

Originally Posted by dj4monie

They made up the majority of the field.

Yup - and the minority of the finishers!

Originally Posted by dj4monie

If you add 6 more GT3 cars, then you won't be missing anything.

Apart from 10 really high quality starters that is and the cars that finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th

Originally Posted by dj4monie

It won't be any less exciting either. At times the racing in FIA GT3 was better than the big dog GT1 series.

There's a world of difference between a 1 hour sprint and a 24 hour enduro - Neither the GT3 or the GT1 cars are now built for the latter

Originally Posted by dj4monie

I just believe its popular to pile on Ratel when you don't agree with the direction of his series.

Popular? Nope - but as with ALMS, Grand-Am, the ACO and others it's only correct to point out flaws as well as applaud the good bits.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

I think if Ratel ran this format then his new endurance series could be very popular, add in Germany too. A race in all the heavy hitter Europen nations, but not Germany?

Germany doesn't need Ratel anymore, or at least that's what the ADAC seems to believe...

And, they just might be onto something there: VLN is perhaps the world's best GT-only endurance series, and GT-Masters appears to me to be #1 in terms of media coverage and quality grids as far as the sprint series go.
Rumor has it, that it was due to the ADAC's fear of being overshadowed by the GT1-cars that Ratel didn't get a shoe in at any of next year's GT-Masters rounds.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

There's a world of difference between a 1 hour sprint and a 24 hour enduro - Neither the GT3 or the GT1 cars are now built for the latter

Yet there are way, way more GT3s racing 24h races worldwide than GT2s.

(Unless you were only talking about the FIA series)

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Yet there are way, way more GT3s racing 24h races worldwide than GT2s.

(Unless you were only talking about the FIA series)

The performance differences GT2 vs GT3 are pretty artificial - GT3s are allowed to run with more power than GT2s - yet GT2s more than usually prevail whilst over the major endurance races the GT3s have real issues of reliability.

The races where the GT3s have better reliability are those where the teams are allowed more flexibility to upgrade (VLN etc)

We are though getting to a stage where development of GT3s is getting faster and faster - I'd expect to see a GT2 version of the AMG Mercedes SLS pretty soon for instance - The old "GT2s are race cars, GT3s are upgraded road cars" is getting more outdated by the year - but in turn that has an impact on national racing, now more dependent than ever on GT3 - development costs are sky rocketing and the grids are suffering a a result

[Go_For_Pole]

German and British championships are not doing that bad, are they?