Another gap jump incident GRC

[Janneman]

In F1 they learned (the hard way). A wet race and they have a rolling start, a rainflood means a red flag. Ingoring yellow, blocking a competitor, close the door in a corner, dangerous driving (also in the pits) means a penalty. These measurements don't give the spactators more exitement but as much safety as possible is the message.

In GRC you see just the opposite. Untill now there were severals warnings with accidents with the ramp and even injuries. It's just not good for the image of motorsport and rallycross in particular to sse this behaviour of organisers. It looks more like dollarsigns as that they take the responsibility.

Regards,
Jan

[Clive Brown]

I'm only surprised that it hasn't yet occurred to the morons behind GRC that it would make for even more thrills and spills if instead of a gap jump, the crossing was at grade....

[rallycrossnl]

And another one...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HN0ThFJmkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX21oU4M-oI

Far to slow over the up-ramp to make the jump.

[chunder]

Jan you are mixing up sport with entertainment.

GRC is a mix of the two, a global race series where drivers want the exposure and to drive the cars that are basically internet home pages on wheels!!

I dont like it but it isnt rallycross, if you think of it like that or think of it as posh drifting, then you can happily just ignore it!!

[rallycrossnl]

'What exactly IS Global Rally Cross?

Think SuperCross Motorcycle racing meets European Rallying meets wild Gymkhana meets some Evil Knievel and Joey Chitwood thrown in there, all coming together in a tight package of racing that seems to perfectly reflect America’s narrowing attention span .'

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...vegas-preview/

I think that sums it up rather good.

[leonidas]

It worries me that people are getting very complacent about safety because cars have improved in recent years. Sudden deceleration impacts can still kill whatever car you are in. Exposed or carelessly constructed concrete or barriers can also be lethal when they get into a car.

Tragically a relatively minor 'off' was enough to end the life of Gareth Roberts. I really fear that sooner or later the GRC's luck will run out.

[rallycrossnl]

Safety has nothing to do with luck.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

'What exactly IS Global Rally Cross?

Think SuperCross Motorcycle racing meets European Rallying meets wild Gymkhana meets some Evil Knievel and Joey Chitwood thrown in there, all coming together in a tight package of racing that seems to perfectly reflect America’s narrowing attention span .'

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...vegas-preview/

I think that sums it up rather good.

Is there actually any evidence that American attention spans are narrowing??? Last time I went to a baseball game (America's national sport) it lasted nearly 5 hours! NASCAR Cup rounds typically last a lot longer than a Grand Prix. And even NFL games last longer than a soccer match...

Seems to me the strength of rallycross is its ability to generate 'stories' throughout the heats and finals.... duels throughout the day, favourites struggling to qualify, plucky newcomers pulling off surprise heat wins, old rivalries being renewed, superstars battling back from the wrong end of the C final grid...

Isn't that more exciting than gap jumps?

[rallycrossnl]

Don't blame me for those words, blame the totally ignorant, prolly never seen a racecar... oh, he did see a race car before.

Mail Matt Cleary he's wrong.

'With experience at Skip Barber Racing School, Lime Rock Park, and several IndyCar teams, Matt Cleary has covered open wheel and sports car racing for over a decade. Working for Sunday Group Management, Cleary also provides strategic motorsports consulting for a range of clients in the sport.'

Yeah, he dosn't know a thing he talks about.
(again, quoted from here http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...vegas-preview/ Not my words)

[schanche]

Is it just me but its always referred to as rally, rally prepared cars ****ing really ****es me off. Always make a point of telling them there rallycross cars specifically built for rallycross Idiot's

[rx-guru]

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/20...2bc4488b1d.jpg

[Janneman]

In the name GRC it says "rally cross". If some tragedy happens (sooner or later if they continue like this) in my country it means that if some one is killed in action during rallycross (doesn't mind if it's here or the USA) it becomes far more difficult if not impossible to get a circuit license.

Regards,
Jan

[kennybrackfan]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Look at the two most successful motor sports in the world - F1 and NASCAR. Do these rely on gimmicks?

DRS? KERS? Chase For The Cup?

The problem is that 'pure' motorsport is inherently boring to the untrained eye. You hold qualifying to put the fastest car at the front, and in a race without various tyres/conditionally-deployable toys each car would continue to pull away from the one behind it until the race ends.

GRC should be celebrated as an effort to put big power back in to cars at a time when few series are choosing to do that, and for bringing racing to the cities and the streets where the people are - instead of taking it to places with no interest. EXXXTREEEEMMMMEEEEE sports are the market in ascendancy and if some of that has to be adopted to make the sport viable then I am all for it. All of this can be traced back to certain Mr McRae and his first appearance at the X Games. And we all know what a great advocate for safety he was...

GRC might not be rallycross in it's traditional sense, but point me at any of the high-popularity, televised racing categories and tell me they serve all of their traditions. I'm sure everything used to be better "back in the day" but GRC can be honed into something special if it can keep momentum.

Keep up the good work Mark.

[chasing cars]

I repeat myself Kennybrackfan this is now about safety and putting drivers at unnecessary extra risk and damaging the name of rallycross not about tradition. I dont believe americans are so stupid that something like a gap jump is required for them to go and watch and enjoy, it seems marketing people have a much lesser opinion of them.

Im certain given time and building up its own tradition "proper" rallycross in the US would have been a success, problem is its all about making money as quick as possible so its needs some big impact thing for that to happen and I guess the jump is it. The jump is a way of building up media interest by making it different and every crash that happens means more media coverage, generating more interest which is just what the GRC want.

[tux]

Originally Posted by chasing cars

I repeat myself Kennybrackfan this is now about safety and putting drivers at unnecessary extra risk and damaging the name of rallycross not about tradition. I dont believe americans are so stupid that something like a gap jump is required for them to go and watch and enjoy, it seems marketing people have a much lesser opinion of them.

Im certain given time and building up its own tradition "proper" rallycross in the US would have been a success, problem is its all about making money as quick as possible so its needs some big impact thing for that to happen and I guess the jump is it. The jump is a way of building up media interest by making it different and every crash that happens means more media coverage, generating more interest which is just what the GRC want.

Im not saying the gap jump is right or wrong, personally id like to see them gone or made alot safer somehow because the last thing i want to see is someone injured or worse but ask yourself this. If its that unsafe why are drivers and teams still competing after the incidents? Surely the GRC are not forcing them to do it?

[Chessmsport]

If the drivers don't mind the gap jumps whats the problem!!!
If its not 'real' rallycross whats the problem nobody is making you watch it!!!

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by kennybrackfan

The problem is that 'pure' motorsport is inherently boring to the untrained eye. You hold qualifying to put the fastest car at the front, and in a race without various tyres/conditionally-deployable toys each car would continue to pull away from the one behind it until the race ends.

GRC should be celebrated as an effort to put big power back in to cars at a time when few series are choosing to do that, and for bringing racing to the cities and the streets where the people are - instead of taking it to places with no interest.

I don't see how rallycross can be boring when races only last 4-5 laps? We had about 100 races at the Grand Prix this weekend. If one was a bit dull, something more exciting would be along in a minute... no dangerous stunts required.

I normally take a 'live and let live' attitude to series I'm not interested in but when does safety start to get so ridiculous that it damages rallycross more widely? Would the MSA sanction a track like this?

[Pozi]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I don't see how rallycross can be boring when races only last 4-5 laps? We had about 100 races at the Grand Prix this weekend. If one was a bit dull, something more exciting would be along in a minute... no dangerous stunts required.

I normally take a 'live and let live' attitude to series I'm not interested in but when does safety start to get so ridiculous that it damages rallycross more widely? Would the MSA sanction a track like this?

GRC currently has around 15 cars and 7 races at each event so you can not compare GRC to traditional rallycross.

Just think of GRC as the car equivalent of Red Bull X-Fighters, the business models are very similar in providing entertainment as a nicely condensed package, it should also be noted that the X-Fighters brigade have far bigger ramps and more risk of injury than the little jump used in GRC yet nobody bats an eyelid over it being too dangerous.

[kennybrackfan]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I don't see how rallycross can be boring when races only last 4-5 laps? We had about 100 races at the Grand Prix this weekend. If one was a bit dull, something more exciting would be along in a minute... no dangerous stunts required.

Hey I was at the Grand Prix, and I did enjoy it. Some races were a bit pokey (Swift Juniors ) but my new racing hero is Slawomir Woloch after that legendary 2nd place in the Hot Hatch The problem with the event is a lack of depth in some of the fields - and the continued absence of a Stock Hatch class. The Retro series looks spot on though, long may it continue!

Originally Posted by chasing cars

I repeat myself Kennybrackfan this is now about safety and putting drivers at unnecessary extra risk and damaging the name of rallycross not about tradition.

Hey I'm not to argue on safety grounds. I didn't think it detracted anything from the X games race when they bridged the gap on the jump. If anything, I find jumps a little pointless when everyone is supposed to drive at them at a calculated speed. But as Pozi said, GRC is exhibition racing. It's still competitive, but in the way a charity or masters race might be. The drivers still want to win but it's all part of the show. The British Grand Prix at Croft had a great attendance this year, and I'm sure a lot of the credit for that has to go to the youtube audience realising they had something similar on their doorstep. And of course, Mr Proctor's tireless efforts

But back on safety, a lot of national-level cars look pretty ropey when it comes to driver protection - like they probably wouldn't survive a clean landing off a GRC jump, let alone a bad one! I would argue that 'traditional' rallycross cars have nothing like the protective qualities of a purpose built GRC machine.

I reckon let GRC do it's thing and keep generating interest in the sport as a whole. Rallycross SHOULD be the perfect formula for racing and attracting crowds because it's the best elements of every kind of motorsport - and the more people who find it, the better.

[chunder]

Well comparing stunt motocross to something that is a sort of botched together version of rallycross is slightly different.

An X fighters rider has trained in a foam pit for days on end to the point where he knows what he can do or pull off, its execution that matters. If a mistake is made then yes he will get hurt.

But getting hurt is a part of doing the sport, like bike racing in general, it's why is attracts fans, coz they marvel at guys on the edge, coz if you have ever tried to go near that edge yourself, you appreciate even more whwt bthey are doing.

This effort at rallycross is justa haphazard thing, the cars are not designed to be jumped like this, they might be strong, but theya re not designed to jump, a CORR car is designed to jump like a motocross bike differs from a trial or enduro bike, a rallycross car is like a tarmac rally car, not a forest car, it has low suspension for low C of G, wide wheels and tyres for grip and limited suspension travel, a forest car has much softer springs, much longer travel, hence it can take jumps easier.

You are no really comparing like with like, a freestle racer goes into a competition knowing that he could fall off, maybe 50 percent chance, do you really think Gronholm, Isachsen, Block go into a GRC event with a 50 percent chance they will destroy their car and hurt themselves? Get over yourself!!! lol

[Janneman]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

If the drivers don't mind the gap jumps whats the problem!!!
If its not 'real' rallycross whats the problem nobody is making you watch it!!!

Refer to the F1 in older days. Very unsafe but even Senna drove his car. Just after he died they saw that the drivers and teams were not able so make the sport safer. That's a lesson to be learned for other sport as GRC

It's not the fact that one might think it's not real rallycross. It's what the public opinion makes of it if a driver gets hurt or dies in a rallycross-race. Then give it the name "Global Stunt Racing".

[FIRE]

Adding a table top like they did at the X Games solves a lot of problems. It looks still spectacular but makes it a lot safer. Win win situation.

[chunder]

It is better Fire, but Binks was a sort of kick forward as the car didnt land on a flat surface, the car kicked forward.

A Flat top would still do the same worst case, but I agree a better solution. We have had so many incidents now something HAS to be done.

I tried to watch it, but I am so sorry, watching a load of lovely cars blatting around a car park marked out bt concrete barriers just isnt for me, no matter who is involved.

I can go and watch autotesting for that and its free

[USRallycross]

I keep reading these threads - must be a masochist - but then wondered why do you all watch it? There are many sports I don't like so I don't watch them. There are motorsports I don't like so I don't watch them.

IMG aren't doing this to the ERC, the Doran's aren't doing this to be BRC and we are a continent away and not particularly easy to watch on TV over there. But you still all go to the trouble of watching on youtube or elsewhere and then having to cringe or cover your eyes at the scary bits.

Perhaps if you all stick to trying to rally around the BRC and ERC - although you kill both of those as well - then we will stick to trying to get the GRC into a good place and one day when we have done that we will deliver world peace.

I can't type anymore as I have to go and search for some more racing that I absolutely hate to watch, think is crazy, dangerous irresponsible so i can come back and report on it here.

Mark

[Hickey1]

The only thing that hasn't been questioned is why Binks didn't just go a bit faster?? Same with Heikkinen, yet he admitted he was only doing something like 50mph when others were doing 60-65mph.

If there is going to be a jump gap, make sure you are going quick enough to jump the gap.