Kents to be replaced by Honda in US

Triple J Motorsport · 28 Jul 2009, 08:46 (Ref:2509741)

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no194.html

£7,500 for an engine that isn't going to be slower is madness!!!

JNWRF01 · 28 Jul 2009, 10:27 (Ref:2509799)

I think every agrees that a modern low maintainence engine that has parity with current kent motors is the way to go (and bear in mind that the US motors are a bit more powerful than UK ones - so am guessing Honda unit c115bhp). Key thing here is the ability to retro fit to older chassis and therefore be able to enter the same races (esp the big blue ribbon events)

In terms of cost - I have no idea what a good new ff1600 engine is to buy - £4-5000? I would guess the Honda lump would be cheaper in terms of engine life against more initial capital outlay. In my experience, you can get min. double mileage from a Zetec over a Kent for similar rebuild costs.

Also - as with most modern engines - the ability to make the power output all the same is more simple - and thus eliminates the need to spend ££££s on "special" motors. Basically, sounds like Honda are doing exactly what Ford should have done when they introduced the Duratec.

Overall, sounds very +ve to me.

kartingdad · 28 Jul 2009, 11:33 (Ref:2509862)

It might push Ford to sort out the Duratec engine.

'Might', but it won't as there is too much apathy on this side of the Atlantic.

I wish they would though, would sort out some of the 'expert' Kent engine builders currently saddled up and riding around.

onenastyviper · 28 Jul 2009, 12:15 (Ref:2509893)

yay, how about a little competition in the engine department?

Formula Honda anyone?

Japanese Samurai · 28 Jul 2009, 13:09 (Ref:2509949)

FranksWilde · 28 Jul 2009, 13:46 (Ref:2509971)

really wish they would do this overhear with a duratec unit. SAME POWER OUTPUT. Then it's up to you if you invest in a duratec or rebuild your kent.

kartingdad · 28 Jul 2009, 13:59 (Ref:2509977)

Remember the cost of a lump of lead as the duratec is lighter than a kent. Maybe just allow post 98 cars (or similair) to run them.

FranksWilde · 28 Jul 2009, 20:41 (Ref:2510197)

alot of older cars are overweight anyway so wouldn't be a problem.

Restricting the eligible cars to post '98 would **** alot of people off. Everyone or no one should be the rule especially if it is to be seen as a like for like engine. It would also be more encouraging to ford as there would be more prospective customers.

Triple J Motorsport · 29 Jul 2009, 12:28 (Ref:2510717)

Agreed in the very long term will save money but your kent motor will loose 3/4 of it's current value assuming classics and historics remain with them.

Then you spend twice the amount on a fresh motor, so assuming you have just one kent engine your nearly £10,000 down. Won't be slower than a kent engine clearly otherwise no one would buy one. Would/could club kent drivers spend that much? Some would some wouldn't. Think you'd see alot less FF600s racing.

The price needs to be less than £5k all in. Hopefully this kicks Ford into offering a 1.4 Duratec motor as was seriously considered a couple of years ago. With discounts for existing kent owners.

Purely from my point of view would make them more attractive since engines would be level and last longer and be cheaper to rebuild and I'd would wait for second hand engines to be available too and the only FF1600 I now have is a classic with an unknown engine, so I'll buy one of your kent motors for next to nothing too!

SAMD · 29 Jul 2009, 14:51 (Ref:2510818)

I would have thought there are enough Classic and Historic boys about to buy all the quick engines there are (assuming as you do that they remain with Kents). Which should keep the prices similar to what they are now. As an aside - if the majority of cars went with the honda/duratech would FF1600 become FF1500/1400?

onenastyviper · 29 Jul 2009, 18:24 (Ref:2511015)

Wouldn't it be nice not to have to dig through the worlds scrap bins trying to find the elusive 711m blocks, pistons or heads?

Walshy · 29 Jul 2009, 22:24 (Ref:2511244)

Bring it on.............

A modern engine in the back of an older car can only be a good thing. Shame Ford didn't design the Duratec as a retro-fit. Missed an opportunity there I think.

I dare say one of the stipulations of running this engine would be to standardise the ECU?

mountainstar · 29 Jul 2009, 22:31 (Ref:2511251)

Ultimately I think it's a good idea as I understand the kents always require heaps of maintenance and rebuilds and it gets expensive. That Honda engine will run and run with no problems likely.

Walshy · 29 Jul 2009, 22:39 (Ref:2511258)

I find the Kent just so fickle.

You can start the thing up one night, not touch it, then when you come to it next day, the bugger won't start. Or it starts making funny noises.

It has served a purpose, but I just think it's a no-brainer that if there is a chance to update the unit, then why not do it. And even if it comes in at the cost already discussed, what with rebuild costs of a Kent, it wouldn't be long before it's paid for itself.

Is the price for the Honda a stock block, or is it a ready to go price?

gttouring · 29 Jul 2009, 22:43 (Ref:2511261)

chat about the paddock in the US is to use the Ford based mazda 1.6L units from the first gen Miata as the replacement.

the Honda is entering not as an engine necessarily to replace but as an alternate.
and if it wins and the Mazda or small duratec is not made to compete
honda will be the defacto motor

kartingdad · 29 Jul 2009, 23:12 (Ref:2511282)

Can't see it happening here with the Fred Flinstones who run FF1600 'saying everythings ok with our ancient engine, why change?'

Truth of the matter is, several Kent engine key components are not made by Ford any more but subcontracted out to, well who knows.

Apparently these wonderful suppliers of all things cheap and nasty can't even spell quality control, never mind implement it..

And they have no need to as Ford don't appear to care.

If it breaks, you buy a new one, so a win win situation.

onenastyviper · 30 Jul 2009, 09:31 (Ref:2511502)

So, majority agree that this is a good idea?

Let's see how long this lasts...

Has anyone done any research into direct replacement alternative engines to the kent already?

Triple J Motorsport · 30 Jul 2009, 09:32 (Ref:2511503)

walshy - the honda is a ready to go price

kartingdad - May be more of a song and dance should be made Ford would love that 1960s engine, poor parts etc etc

Why not fit a bullet proof Zetec in your FFs !!

driftwood · 30 Jul 2009, 12:20 (Ref:2511615)

zetec too heavy and top end as well
ford goofed with that motor design for race cars
Ford have goofed all round with its approach to FFord

how many yanks will spend £7k on honda motor and get 1500 bucks for their old kent unit?
still cheaper to keep kent motor rebuild next 20 years than spend £7k changing motor and loss of value on kent motor
PLUS the purist will still want to race FFord as it was designed to be
if honda is so reliable many engine builders will be signing on the dole

I think its a case of if it aint broke why fix it

If Honda want to project the engine into club racing go create F Honda free design of chassis but
sealed engine- ecu chosen from the hat each race
tyres 1 set per 3 meetings?
choice of 5 ratios to work from and all up driver car weight limit
only 3 choices of ARB
2 way dampers
basic data logger
no testing except day before meeting as ecu is back to organiser each meeting and a basic ecu is given to start engine do warm up at home but rpm limit set at 3000 so u cant test at track

JNWRF01 · 30 Jul 2009, 13:39 (Ref:2511676)

are tyres really an issue compared to the difference in performance in engines?

driftwood · 30 Jul 2009, 14:42 (Ref:2511707)

everything is an issue in motorsport
tyres are nearly everything to cars performance and teams budget
if they where not why do people fit new tyres willy nilly

onenastyviper · 30 Jul 2009, 19:12 (Ref:2511888)

Err, $7k for Honda and $1k5 for the Kent = $6k5 overall?
How much is a top line american kent engine now?

Ted bennett · 30 Jul 2009, 20:46 (Ref:2511941)

What is the issue with the Duratec not fitting into some FF chassis? Width between the chassis rails or something else ?

Walshy · 30 Jul 2009, 21:58 (Ref:2511984)

For one, inlet and outlet manifolds on the wrong side....................

kartingdad · 31 Jul 2009, 06:54 (Ref:2512178)

What an insurmountable engineering challenge, lol.

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