Is the North West Formula Ford Championship staying at its home circuit Oulton Park.

greenboy · 11 Sep 2005, 07:51 (Ref:1404246)

We are very lucky to have Oulton Park as our Championship Circuit,the strongest formula ford championship currently.If any effort is made to make this a multi circuit championship it will kill itself over the next two seasons.Take Croft this season ,cost to take part as owner driver is £1000,I dont think there are many competitors with this kind of money to spend on there own sport on a regular basis or the time off work.I feel that we need to deal with this situation now as drivers before this is taken out of our hands.Please give this some serious consideration and make your personal feelings felt.If we loose Oulton Park rest assured you will never get it back.

diz · 11 Sep 2005, 10:42 (Ref:1404415)

Good Morning Dave
The reponse to the recent drivers questionnaire was - how shall I put it - not very good. About a dozen replies in total - and from such a vast number of drivers.
Mike Waite - as the BRSCC NW Drivers Rep - has offered to do some leg work at the Moose and Croft meetings, to get more forms completed.

Quote:

Take Croft this season ,cost to take part as owner driver is £1000

I don't agree with this figure, unless you are staying five star and being chauffaured in a stretched limo.
Croft is very little further than Anglesey, is it £1000 cheaper to race at Anglesey than Croft?. I don't think so.
I realise that Oulton is on your doorstep and you tend to commute to Anglesey, so I take it your gripe is the distance from home to circuit and staying over.
Don't forget some drivers live closer to to Croft than Anglesey and even Oulton in some cases. Mallory and Donington are commutable for you - if we went there. Just because it isn't Oulton Park doesn't make it wrong.
I would love to return to the halcyon days of Champion of Oulton with 17 meetings on my doorstep, but this will never happen and how many of todays drivers would do all 17 rounds. I suppose they could choose to do 8 rounds and if another driver chose to do the other 9 rounds, that is one entry at every round. Split the number of drivers wanting to race in two and you would get 17 adequately supported rounds, rather than 2005's 4 oversubscribed rounds. This is where I am coming from with the "let's have a 20-24 round Northern Championship and the drivers can choose / nominate which 10/12 rounds they want to do idea"
As an aside, I believe one or two drivers have made, or are making, an extra visit to Croft to get some one to one instruction on track days - I won't say who - and a couple of teams have been testing there earlier this season. Motor racing can become as expensive as you want to make it.

greenboy · 11 Sep 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1404760)

I think that you are missing the point Ian,it's great to have full grids at Oulton but we still struggle at Anglesey.The only other fully subscribed championship is Combe,why,because it's a one track championship.Let's see how many of the 80 NWest lads are at Combe in 2 weeks time.The only drivers at Combe are those who have been blackmailed into going because it is a double header and points win prizes.Don't destroy our future at Oulton Park.I was going to suggest a show of hands at the next meeting but there wont be enough driverat that meeting.I appeal to NWest drivers who visit this web site to make their views known so that we dont end up like the Midlands lads with 10 car grids,if you want to race these circuits you can as guests to the respective championships if they are still around.

Redracer77 · 11 Sep 2005, 19:31 (Ref:1404902)

Dave is right Diz you are so stuck in your ways "I remember the good old days" etc But dave is right on costs. Croft would cost an owner driver -

Entry - £260
Testing - £100 - £200
Tyres - £400 (lets face it a test and 2 races at Croft will kill a set of tyres)
Brakes - £40 - £100
Fuel - £70 (inc testing)
Fuel to circuit - £60
Accom - £180 (3 nights at say £60)
Spares - ?
Damage - ?
Brscc fees - ?

Way over £1000 and then double it if you run with a team.

So if you are Mr Average Diz how many races can you afford a year?

Why is it that Class A and B at the last 2 rounds have been either full or nearly full and Croft has 7 cars?

In my opinion the drivers are voting as we speak.......

diz · 11 Sep 2005, 21:10 (Ref:1404999)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Croft would cost an owner driver -

Entry - £260
Testing - £100 - £200
Tyres - £400 (lets face it a test and 2 races at Croft will kill a set of tyres)
Brakes - £40 - £100
Fuel - £70 (inc testing)
Fuel to circuit - £60
Accom - £180 (3 nights at say £60)
Spares - ?
Damage - ?
Brscc fees - ?

Way over £1000 and then double it if you run with a team.

......

Chris,
These costs would surely apply to Oulton, would they not? The only variables I can see are fuel to circuit and accomodation and some of our drivers live in Yorkshire anyway, so are closer to Croft and wouldn't need the accomodation, whereas they do at Oulton. Swings and roundabouts.
And you yourself won't have to pay for accomodation, as
1. You won't be there
2. You'll have your new motorhome. And please don't reply by splitting the cost of the motorhome over your seasons budget.

diz · 11 Sep 2005, 21:18 (Ref:1405010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

Let's see how many of the 80 NWest lads are at Combe in 2 weeks time.The only drivers at Combe are those who have been blackmailed into going because it is a double header and points win prizes.Don't destroy our future at Oulton Park.I was going to suggest a show of hands at the next meeting

I assume you meant Croft, not Combe.
No need for a show of hands, if you read my initial reply

Quote:

The reponse to the recent drivers questionnaire was - how shall I put it - not very good. About a dozen replies in total - and from such a vast number of drivers.
Mike Waite - as the BRSCC NW Drivers Rep - has offered to do some leg work at the Moose and Croft meetings, to get more forms completed.

Let somebody else collate all the responses Mike gets [I'll give him the handful I got] and enjoy your three or four round championship at Oulton next year.
When I said The reponse to the recent drivers questionnaire was - how shall I put it - not very good I actually meant at it's usual apathetic **** poor level.

greenboy · 12 Sep 2005, 05:58 (Ref:1405261)

Me again,keep you hair on Diz.I think that you feel that anybody who does not atone to your views is the enemy,this is not the case I am stating a personal opinion about the affect of becoming a multi circuit championship.You keep going on about some competitors travelling distance to our championship,they do so because it is the best and THEY choose to travel.I did the Midlands Championship for two seasons by choice and did not expect it to come to me.Incidentally my costs are correct you add at least £400 to every meeting when it involves travel and hotels,I know because it comes out of my pocket!I think I am wasting my time as it has always been your dream to take us to all four corners of our island but please remember there are eighty other opinions out there if we can get them motivated.

Redracer77 · 12 Sep 2005, 06:21 (Ref:1405272)

I am not basing my argument on my budget Diz, I have one of the biggest budgets in NWFF and I know that. It is not me that is going to keep NWFF going it is the people who turn up on traliers that will keep it going. At Oulton the budget drivers know the circuit and come on the day without testing. They can turn up and for £500 they have a great day. But going to Croft or where ever doubles that to over £1000 and more time off work.

It is a big deal to try and compete at a new circuit if you can't afford to test so drivers don't bother.

It is a fact that all the Championships that dont travel have big numbers. Imagine how many people are not going to Croft as they didn't want to buy new ratios just for one race when they are not racing for a Championship? I am not sure what ratios you need for either circuit but a couple of new ratios will set a driver back between £80 and £160.

StephenRae · 12 Sep 2005, 08:04 (Ref:1405338)

Oh dear Ian...once again you have shot yourself in the foot! You hark back to the days when there were 17 or 18 rounds of the CoO and assume that because of the cost we could not afford it...then you trape us off to Croft to incur all of the expense already listed.
I am one of the trailer brigade and I only do 7 or 8 CoO race because that's all there are, I would do more if they were available!

D_Marshall · 12 Sep 2005, 09:07 (Ref:1405395)

Quote:

Originally Posted by diz

As an aside, I believe one or two drivers have made, or are making, an extra visit to Croft to get some one to one instruction on track days - I won't say who -

I'm quite happy to admit that i'm one of the drivers who went there for some tuition on a track day Diz. The reason i went there was because i had never seen the place and i'm not testing the day before, so to go out in qualifying without even knowing if the next turn is a left or a right would be difficult to say the least!

sprocket · 12 Sep 2005, 09:19 (Ref:1405410)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Marshall

I'm quite happy to admit that i'm one of the drivers who went there for some tuition on a track day Diz. The reason i went there was because i had never seen the place and i'm not testing the day before, so to go out in qualifying without even knowing if the next turn is a left or a right would be difficult to say the least!

I beleive it's on Playstation,Circuit maps are available,and you can walk it if you were there at the right time !

Redracer77 · 12 Sep 2005, 12:38 (Ref:1405604)

Get back to work Mr Marshall!!!!

StephenRae · 12 Sep 2005, 14:38 (Ref:1405701)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprocket

I beleive it's on Playstation,Circuit maps are available,and you can walk it if you were there at the right time !

I've never seen much point in 'walking the cicuit' I looked at Island bend last week,it looks like a 2nd gear corner, not one you would contemplate doing 'flat' in top.

diz · 12 Sep 2005, 16:36 (Ref:1405811)

Quote:

Originally Posted by StephenRae

I am one of the trailer brigade and I only do 7 or 8 CoO race because that's all there are, I would do more if they were available!

Good maths Steve getting 7 or 8 out of only 4 OP rounds.
As I said earlier, "enjoy your three or four round championship at Oulton next year".

dhart · 12 Sep 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1405853)

What a shame the championships couldnt have been decided this weekend at Oulton in front of the marshalls and Brscc NW members who have supported the series all season, the King of Kents/ Moose could have gone to Croft instead!.........NW means North West .

Walshy · 13 Sep 2005, 09:01 (Ref:1406463)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Marshall

I'm quite happy to admit that i'm one of the drivers who went there for some tuition on a track day Diz. The reason i went there was because i had never seen the place and i'm not testing the day before, so to go out in qualifying without even knowing if the next turn is a left or a right would be difficult to say the least!

The first time I went up to Croft, I had borrowed my brothers Playstation and had a dabble at TOCA Touring Cars. It works too. I didn't test and when I got to the circuit, my first laps were in Qualifying. They weren't bad laps either, but there is still no substitute for doing a Test..........

jminsh · 13 Sep 2005, 09:06 (Ref:1406471)

Oh well the writing's on the wall, say bye bye to the mega grids of this season it was good while it lasted !!!!!!!

But wait it can be saved if everyone digs their heels in and says "OI DIZ NO, GET BACK IN YER BOX "

diz · 13 Sep 2005, 13:03 (Ref:1406658)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jminsh

Oh well the writing's on the wall, say bye bye to the mega grids of this season it was good while it lasted !!!!!!!

But wait it can be saved if everyone digs their heels in and says "OI DIZ NO, GET BACK IN YER BOX "

The feeling in the Diz mind at present is veering towards "they can shove it up their bottoms from 2006"
Would I miss it? Probably not as much as I would expect to miss it, so look forward to 2006 folks and enjoy whatever comes your way.
At least I can stay here on TT and listen to you all bleating and going off half cock about a subject you know a far lower %age about than you think you all do.

Walshy · 13 Sep 2005, 13:40 (Ref:1406680)

This is gonna be one of them arguments that will never die. I feel for Diz sometimes because regardless of who is at fault, the BRSCC now only have 4 race days for us as opposed to 17 and Diz, while trying to organise some variety into the Championship is coming under fire of parties from all sides.

We must remember that whilst the Championship is supposedly based at Oulton, we have many drivers from North Manchester and Yorkshire who welcome a Croft round. These drivers are also happily attending the Anglesey rounds. The same can be said for drivers that live nearer to Anglesey and still attend Croft.

If anyone read my sermon (as it was described by some) on a previous Thread about travelling, will realise that I am not mad keen on it, but I do accept happily, these two alternative circuits. They are both fun to drive and we can make a family weekend of it, as the paddocks are very relaxed and friendly. You can argue that Donington is nearer than Croft, but it certainly isn't Northern and it has it's own Championship that visits it, so it doesn't need a visit from us.

The one thing I would like to see though is a race weekend becoming two days and not three. On the Saturday, everybody gets free practice to fine tune cars and qualifying takes place in the afternoon. Sunday is left for racing. With this in mind, I would happily see a testing ban at the circuits, as this is fundamental in increasing budgets. Some of you will know, I have had a good year this year, but I have come to realise through it, that the need to test when your competitors are testing is paramount. If your competitors are running new tyres every meeting, you need to. If you want to compete. It is no secret that I probably have one of the smallest budgets on the grid and struggle to make all the test sessions. By removing this element, there is a "leveller" playing field. Indeed, if everyone got a free practice over a weekend, we could all benefit. But I can understand why people won't agree with that as I dare say if I had a larger budget, I would like to test more. So again, there probably won't be any compromise reached over this.

What I will say about your questionnaires Diz, is that the usual driver apathy is shining bright as always. There are more than 12 North West drivers on here with opinions, so where are the rest of your questionnaires???????

That's one of the annoying things. They don't look at the bigger picture. So long as they can race somewhere, they are okay to pay whatever is asked and go and race, but as I have said before, without the trailer towing clubbie, there wouldn't be racing at this level because there are more low budget racers than high budget in FF1600.

Oh. And I did send back my questionnaire.

Put your dummy back in Diz. You don't realise how much your appreciated sometimes........

greenboy · 13 Sep 2005, 19:14 (Ref:1406961)

Walshy you are perfectly right in your last paragraph "the trailor towing clubbie" that's why there are eighty of us,cracking lads ,fantastic racing ,good banter and great camaradery.If we do not fight to stay at Oulton and some Anglesey you will end up with twenty "haves" racing all over the country and sixty "have nots" and a dying championship.The end of an era in NW club racing.Let's hope it's not too late,it would be sad not to have the Murphies,the Martin Coburns,the Blue Noses,the Jones's,the British Airways Pilots to mention just a few.

foreversideways · 13 Sep 2005, 22:52 (Ref:1407155)

As Paddy and Max say. " Don't know where were goin"

greenboy · 14 Sep 2005, 05:41 (Ref:1407272)

Then you are probably one of the twenty.

blue nose · 14 Sep 2005, 07:38 (Ref:1407329)

Maybee we should get more Oulton days back then...I race because I like Oulton and Anglesey,Its the people that make the championship you dont get that atmosphere any were else that I have been.Plus the marshals and officials are our mates.

Diz take a chill pill and get some more Oulton dates back after you put your toys back in the pram.

StephenRae · 14 Sep 2005, 07:48 (Ref:1407335)

I can see Diz' point...I was one of the apathetic majority who didn't reply to the questionaire... Ian I think you should get your clipboard out and pole the drivers face to face.
In the past there was a CoO at virtually every Oulton race meeting. Has enough been done to promote FF1600 with the other clubs? if we don't do it,no one else will. I would have thought the guarantee of a full grid (even if we only had one race) would be attractive to clubs other than the BRSCC.
If we could get back to say ten days at Oulton plus 4 at Anglesey then say a couple at other circiuts then the championship would be over 16 rounds with perhaps 12 to count then everyone would be happy.

Redracer77 · 14 Sep 2005, 08:14 (Ref:1407359)

the only way you will get more OP dates is if we set up our own club. We only have 4 dates at OP this year as the BRSCC only have that many dates. If we owned our own club then we could have major buying power with the other clubs such as BARC, 750, HHCC etc. In the nature of business they would love to have a field of 50 - 80 drivers ready to part with £175 each.......

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