Le Mans Series 2008

[Le Vieux]

Sprint races?

500km races?

I thought these races were part of the Le Mans ENDURANCE Series?

[The Badger]

Sportscar racing is all about endurance ..... not sprints !!!

[Speed-King]

Generally I'd agree with you on that, but I would not be oppossed to an occasional flat-out sprint race.
And maybe this is just what the series needs to gain popularity. Right now only true gearheads know about the LMS and I think that should change.
Look at the ALMS: They "support" the IRL and CCWS on some dates in order to gain exposure, maybe LMS should do the same. That's why I think that a sprint race at the Norisring (remember, we had this before) would be a good move on the German market, even more so if the series somehow managed to get a decent TV coverage (live???) for that race.
Maybe they could do the same in the UK at a BTCC event. I don't think that 1/3 sprint races would distort the endurance aspect of the series too much...

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Generally I'd agree with you on that, but I would not be oppossed to an occasional flat-out sprint race.
And maybe this is just what the series needs to gain popularity. Right now only true gearheads know about the LMS and I think that should change.
Look at the ALMS: They "support" the IRL and CCWS on some dates in order to gain exposure, maybe LMS should do the same. That's why I think that a sprint race at the Norisring (remember, we had this before) would be a good move on the German market, even more so if the series somehow managed to get a decent TV coverage (live???) for that race.
Maybe they could do the same in the UK at a BTCC event. I don't think that 1/3 sprint races would distort the endurance aspect of the series too much...

THe best way to get exposure in Germany would be to link up with DTM which regularly gets 90,000 spectators and with Audi being so strong in DTM their is a potential connection.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Generally I'd agree with you on that, but I would not be oppossed to an occasional flat-out sprint race.
And maybe this is just what the series needs to gain popularity. Right now only true gearheads know about the LMS and I think that should change.
Look at the ALMS: They "support" the IRL and CCWS on some dates in order to gain exposure, maybe LMS should do the same. That's why I think that a sprint race at the Norisring (remember, we had this before) would be a good move on the German market, even more so if the series somehow managed to get a decent TV coverage (live???) for that race.
Maybe they could do the same in the UK at a BTCC event. I don't think that 1/3 sprint races would distort the endurance aspect of the series too much...

Where for the BTCC? It would mean culling Clios/SEATs/FRenault/FBMW/Porsches (at least 3) or an evening race. Thruxton (sadly), Croft, quite probably Oulton, Snetterton (until the redevelopment is finished), and Knockhill aren't doable at all, meaning Rockingham, Brands and Donington.

Brands can't do evening races, Rockingham would be good and they already go to Donington. But will Rockingham be kept on the schedule or will Silverstone return?

Ideally it would be a coheadline with the WTCC, both of which would be Europe only. Shame the FIA mandate pointless flyaways to call it a world championship.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Mal

THe best way to get exposure in Germany would be to link up with DTM which regularly gets 90,000 spectators and with Audi being so strong in DTM their is a potential connection.

Norisring would necessarily mean DTM as that's the only race weekend they have there.

and they already go to Donington

They went to Donington last year, this year it's Silverstone. To limit the paddock space used, I'd make the sprint(=support) rounds LMP-only, as the Protos are clearly the main show in the LMS.

[brielga]

no sprint races please..next thing you know you are asking for mandatory pit stops...

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Sportscar racing is all about endurance ..... not sprints !!!

During the glory days of sportscar racing (Group C/IMSA) there were also shorter races. Also you had the populair DRM. So sportscar racing all about endurance is not true.

[The Badger]

The Norisring was also refered to as a money race with a large cash win ..... thats why it was very popular . And it wasnt part of the world championship either ... it was however part or the german series .

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by The Badger

The Norisring was also refered to as a money race with a large cash win ..... thats why it was very popular . And it wasnt part of the world championship either ... it was however part or the german series .

There were more shorter races besides Norisring.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by The Badger

The Norisring was also refered to as a money race with a large cash win ..... thats why it was very popular . And it wasnt part of the world championship either ... it was however part or the german series .

Norisring was in 86 and 87 part of the World Championship.
IIRC they had a cash race("Geldrennen") and a points paying race, one on Saturday, one on Sunday.

[dxk1]

Heck, they even had hill climbs as part of the World Championship of Sportscars back in the glory days! I think a diversity of events helps get more people involved and makes it more interesting than just having one type of event. However, if one event type is going to dominate, then the 6 hour format is a good one.

DK

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Mal

THe best way to get exposure in Germany would be to link up with DTM which regularly gets 90,000 spectators and with Audi being so strong in DTM their is a potential connection.

And they give away 50,000 tickets, plus heavy promotion, which is one of the reasons only two manufactuers compete, and seemingly every season it's on the brink of collapse., despite appearances.

One of the best ideas is to link up with Renault World Series who heavily promote their meetings, as at Monza and Spa.

[Le Vieux]

Clearly, from the preceeding posts, we have two different opinions here. Some want to see sprints, others don't.

It's telling that this thread was named the Le Mans Series 2008, omitting the word Endurance. However, surely endurance is what this is all about. The words Le Mans mean endurance - that's what LM is all about. My guess is that most of us became interested in our sport because of a 24 hour race, not a 300 mile dash.

If sprint races are what interest you, go and watch the Max and Bernie show - motor racing for people who don't understand racing.

The LMES is all about the endurance of the drivers, the cars and the team as a whole. It's about race strategy. Ideally it would be about driving in varying conditions including darkness.

By all means have a sprint race series if your attention span is at the level of the Sunday afternoon armchair children, but don't use the words Le Mans or Endurance.

[Tim the Grey]

I remember Porsche 917s and GT40s et al in the 60s in BOAC 500K races!!!
Come one. There's room for some variation on the theme.
Let's get a sprint race on a GP track, see how close an R10 is to an F1 car...
Let's have a lot of 6 hour/1000K races. Then throw in several shorter races supporting NATIONAL events, such as DRM/BTCC etc? Imagine an LMES/BGT/F3 event? The LMES get Saturday, starting around 3/4PM, so you get a finish in the DARK. Late start for the marshals next day. That kind of slots neatly into Silverstone in september, no?
Add a fairground and party event on the infield, with loads of camping space, you have a FAMILY event.

[Le Vieux]

I agree, there's room for some variation - but don't call it an ENDURANCE series, or pretend that it has something to do with Le Mans. LMES 2008 should be just that

500 miles, not kilometres, surely......? The point being that in the quaint english way, 500 miles was a nice round figure vaguely near the 1000kms that everyone else ran, giving a race time on the relatively tight Brands Hatch track that was roughly equivalent to the time taken to complete a 1000km race elsewhere. I seem to recall that it was an either/or race: Either 500 miles or 6 hours, whichever occurred soonest.

Fairground on the infield, lots of camping space: you forgot the smell of Gauloises, the frites and merguez stands! We already have these in France in mid-June.

We don't need sprint races to compare F1 Scalextric cars with an R10. The comparsion can be made any year at, for example, Silverstone i.a., with the GP and the 1000k race. I recall that during Group C days, the yardstick was usually that the leading Group C cars would post a better qualifying time than the backmarkers in the previous F1 race. I haven't checked recently, but it's probably not much different now.

[Speed-King]

*cough, cough* It wasn't us who dropped the "E" from LMES, it was the series organisation.

Just look at www.lemans-series.com

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Imagine an LMES/BGT/F3 event? The LMES get Saturday, starting around 3/4PM, so you get a finish in the DARK.

That happened at Silverstone in '05 and if it weren't for the weather then it would have been to wonderful effect. The LMES was on the Saturday afternoon/evening and Sunday was a proper full day of top national racing with the F3/GT package. Now THAT was good value for money!

[Le Vieux]

If you google for LMES, it directs you to www.lmes.com. I've always thought that the "e" stood for endurance.

On that web site we find details of the Michelin Endurance Challenge and also the opening words of the organisers themselves, when explaining the rationale behind the series: "L'Endurance, c'est Le Mans" which I don't need to translate.

We might want more/shorter/different races, but that's not what Le Mans is about, nor, I suggest, what the LM(E)S is about.

[Speed-King]

And when you go to www.cart.com you end up on the Champcar website, even though CART is now dead for four years...
They kept the old URL, so what?

I am with you that the LMS should be predominantely 1000k enduros, but I don't think that this should be a dogma.
Just look at the ALMS, they race mostly 2.45hr sprints and are still allowed to call themselves a Le Mans series. They even did a 90 minutes race at Long Beach.

[HORNDAWG]

LNT testing the waters for 08 in a Zytek?? link


L.P.

[brielga]

That baby is still up for grabs so why not?

[JAG]

It will be very interesting to see how entries pan out in 2008.

The P1 teams know what they are up against with Peugeot and likely Audi while in P2 RS Spyders are on their way.

Me thinks a number of teams will be stepping up their game just as the ALMS regulars have had to with Audi and Penske.

It will also be interesting to see if any big hitters from other series come into the LMS.

[Zytek_Fan]

Originally Posted by JAG

It will be very interesting to see how entries pan out in 2008.

The P1 teams know what they are up against with Peugeot and likely Audi while in P2 RS Spyders are on their way.

Me thinks a number of teams will be stepping up their game just as the ALMS regulars have had to with Audi and Penske.

It will also be interesting to see if any big hitters from other series come into the LMS.

There's definitely going to be a lot of new chassis purchasing. The Courage LC75 with the Acura aero updates might be a strong chassis with a capable engine package.

BMS Scuderia Italia plan on getting 2 RS Spyders.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

There's definitely going to be a lot of new chassis purchasing. The Courage LC75 with the Acura aero updates might be a strong chassis with a capable engine package.

BMS Scuderia Italia plan on getting 2 RS Spyders.

What leads you to conclude that Courage gets any of Acura's body updates? Did you read that somewhere?

Acura purchases Courage tubs, then builds their car around them. That's the extent of the deal, I think. Did I also miss the BMS Scuderia Italia/Porsche news?