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Old 13 Jan 2018, 02:29 (Ref:3792401)   #346
leothedrummer
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On that sort of note, I wonder how cheaply you could build something to a comparable pace (/reliability?) as a current Supercar if you didn't have the restrictions on weight, capacity, aero, tyre, etc. What would the MARC guys come up with, for example?
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Old 13 Jan 2018, 02:45 (Ref:3792404)   #347
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
The crowd at the Bathurst 6 hour is not exactly huge (even though as far as production cars go, those are fast cars), I don't know if that's your answer...
The Bathurst 6 Hour, as is, is anything but a fair comparison.

If the ATCC/Supercars Championship changed the rules to the current Australian Production Car regulations next year and Triple 8 rocked up to the Adelaide 500 with a bunch of ZB Commodore's driven by Lowndes, SVG and Whincup, if DJR Team Penske rocked up with Mustangs/Focus' driven by Mclaughlin, Mostert & Winterbottom, if BJR turned up with the currently competitive BMW's etc etc... do you think the "Clipsal" crowd would be much smaller?

You won't get a proper answer until that happens. A 6hr race at Bathurst for a completely seperate racing series is no guide whatsoever
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 03:51 (Ref:3792610)   #348
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Originally Posted by leothedrummer View Post
On that sort of note, I wonder how cheaply you could build something to a comparable pace (/reliability?) as a current Supercar if you didn't have the restrictions on weight, capacity, aero, tyre, etc. What would the MARC guys come up with, for example?
Well, that is a MARC car, and they are circa $250k
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 12:13 (Ref:3792667)   #349
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Well, that is a MARC car, and they are circa $250k
Actually thought they were a bit cheaper than that. But anyway, forgot them for a minute. Part I'm actually interested in is realistically speaking, is there ac car that can be built at current Supercars pace for less money?
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Old 14 Jan 2018, 13:51 (Ref:3792690)   #350
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Pace yes, safety, longevity and serviceability questionable.

NZV8s are cheaper, not that it has done them any good.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 07:17 (Ref:3793050)   #351
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Originally Posted by leothedrummer View Post
Actually thought they were a bit cheaper than that. But anyway, forgot them for a minute. Part I'm actually interested in is realistically speaking, is there ac car that can be built at current Supercars pace for less money?
UNDER THE SKIN: MARC FORD FOCUS

suggest $230,000 a year ago, but adding GST would be that $250K Mark
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 08:07 (Ref:3793057)   #352
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MARC cars aren't that far off Supercar speed...and they are built for enduro racing.

I think Supercars aren't quick enough for what they cost in comparison to MARC cars.
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 08:15 (Ref:3793060)   #353
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MARC cars aren't that far off Supercar speed...and they are built for enduro racing.

I think Supercars aren't quick enough for what they cost in comparison to MARC cars.
Well truthfully not much is. a new ferrari GT3 is about 4seconds quicker (in enduro trim) and triple the price. much more expensive to run as well.

something to be said for the MARC formula. v8 hot hatches?
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 21:14 (Ref:3793201)   #354
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Well aware of the costs surrounding Class One and not at all saying that we should follow the Class One regs.

However I believe there is an awful lot that we could learn from the way Super GT conducts itself and that there is room for improvement if Supercars could follow some of the same themes and ideals as Super GT.
What can SC learn from SuperGT?
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Old 16 Jan 2018, 23:12 (Ref:3793220)   #355
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What can SC learn from SuperGT?
They already did - no huge aero or complex cars made from unobtainium in Supercars!
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Old 17 Jan 2018, 22:30 (Ref:3793446)   #356
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What can SC learn from SuperGT?
How to consistently put on entertaining races without resorting to things like convoluted fuel drops or "any excuse" safety cars.

I love Supercars to death but it's just so frustrating to see that some of the problems our series has don't exist in another. Remember the DJR XBOX car trying to climb through the field at Bathurst, only to be stuck behind backmarkers lapping more than 2 seconds a lap slower? Caruso at Queensland Raceway, just driving around behind Frosty for 20 laps, making just the one overtaking attempt, then falling off a cliff because that one single lunge destroyed his tyres? Townsville one year with Skaife working out you need to be at least 8 tenths a lap faster to overtake - on an equal footing, when do you ever see someone 8 tenths a lap faster?

I don't know if it's in the technical or sporting regs, if it's the tyres or the cars or what, but without an endurance race, rain or an abnormally high wearing circuit (that one year at Winton?), the current Supercars doesn't seem to put drivers in the position to properly be able to battle freely. If a driver is 5 seconds behind the leader with 10 laps to go, we all know that the race is a good as done - but it doesn't have to be like that.
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Old 18 Jan 2018, 17:21 (Ref:3793604)   #357
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How to consistently put on entertaining races without resorting to things like convoluted fuel drops or "any excuse" safety cars.
That is, however, despite their technical ruleset, not because of it.

DTM clearly shows that Class One has the potential to be dull as dishwater, but there are three things that it lacks compared to SGT, that explain why the latter is so much more exciting:

1. Multi-class racing
2. Open Tire Competition
3. Lack of large multi-car teams.

Now if we look at Supercars, #3 is already covered. #2 is hugely expensive and probably not sustainable (cf how even a theoretically open tire series like WEC has gravitated to an almost-monopoly for Michelin), so #1 is probably what Supercars should be looking at.
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Old 18 Jan 2018, 22:23 (Ref:3793679)   #358
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2. Open Tire Competition
Supercars should look at this.
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Old 18 Jan 2018, 22:27 (Ref:3793681)   #359
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Supercars should look at this.
you missed this bit from his post

#2 is hugely expensive and probably not sustainable
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Old 18 Jan 2018, 22:31 (Ref:3793682)   #360
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you missed this bit from his post

#2 is hugely expensive and probably not sustainable
It was sustainable for about 100 years of motor racing, until the parity word appeared to gather strength across the motor sport world in the late 1990's.

Killing off tyre competition also killed off sponsorship opportunities.
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