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Old 28 Dec 2017, 18:00 (Ref:3789481)   #316
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My own perception, which is all I can base it on. I think Hamilton has had his off days, and Hawthorn was racing with a serious medical complaint.
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 18:49 (Ref:3789489)   #317
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My own perception, which is all I can base it on. I think Hamilton has had his off days, and Hawthorn was racing with a serious medical complaint.
What's your perception based on?
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 18:55 (Ref:3789490)   #318
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Like all 'here is my list of the greatest ever drivers' lists, it will always be flawed because everyone else will think differently. These things can only be personal....
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 22:09 (Ref:3789510)   #319
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The thing with Hawthorn and Hamilton is that Hamilton's talent is never tested in a way that Hawthorn's was. Hawthorn drove difficult death traps on death trap tracks that would be totally unimaginable to anyone today.

If courage is included as a metric for the "Greatest" then you gotta give it to the top guns who preceded the Jackie Stewart revolution. Or the Ayrton Senna revolution.
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 22:19 (Ref:3789511)   #320
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Though Mansell drove through several very serious back injuries, which is why I gave him the nod.
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 22:23 (Ref:3789512)   #321
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The thing with Hawthorn and Hamilton is that Hamilton's talent is never tested in a way that Hawthorn's was. Hawthorn drove difficult death traps on death trap tracks that would be totally unimaginable to anyone today.

If courage is included as a metric for the "Greatest" then you gotta give it to the top guns who preceded the Jackie Stewart revolution. Or the Ayrton Senna revolution.
Hamilton was seriously tested by Alonso, Button and Rosberg?
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 23:56 (Ref:3789526)   #322
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Hamilton was seriously tested by Alonso, Button and Rosberg?
Fine drivers. Jousting with them though on circuits packed with run-offs ain't dicing with the Grim Reaper with only some bales of hay to separate you from the trees. If courage is the necessary ingredient for "The Greatest", it's the unfit, play hard types of yesteryear that are the top dogs.
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Old 29 Dec 2017, 02:28 (Ref:3789535)   #323
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Fine drivers. Jousting with them though on circuits packed with run-offs ain't dicing with the Grim Reaper with only some bales of hay to separate you from the trees. If courage is the necessary ingredient for "The Greatest", it's the unfit, play hard types of yesteryear that are the top dogs.
This is an excellent example of how difficult it is to compare drivers because of the different eras. If courage is the necessary ingredient for "The Greatest", then they all have it, which makes it nigh on impossible to say who is.
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Old 29 Dec 2017, 10:02 (Ref:3789563)   #324
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'd say that mistakes are still punished, just ask Vettel this season. It's the fact it's no longer lethal to make mistakes, but it doesn't make drivers any less greater than those in the 50s and 60s
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Old 29 Dec 2017, 10:05 (Ref:3789565)   #325
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Fine drivers. Jousting with them though on circuits packed with run-offs ain't dicing with the Grim Reaper with only some bales of hay to separate you from the trees. If courage is the necessary ingredient for "The Greatest", it's the unfit, play hard types of yesteryear that are the top dogs.
This argument has an inherent problem as it means nobody can ever be as good as someone from a few years before them. The further back you go, the more credit drivers get. It's deliberately weighed to give much more credit to older drivers. Lewis could win 15 titles, but never be any good using this sort of system.

Safety and eras don't tend to have huge jumps - they are long slow developments over time. We didn't go from hay bales to tarmac run off in one go. So using the idea that older is always better due to challenge, Damon Hill is miles better than Lewis because he had no tarmac run off.

How far do you want to go with it?
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Old 29 Dec 2017, 12:15 (Ref:3789577)   #326
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Not a lot further, I'd suggest........ We've been round in circles so many times with comparisons like this that we should all be pretty dizzy by now. Still, I guess if there's nothing else to talk about at this time of the year - post in the Lewis Hamilton Champion thread......
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Old 29 Dec 2017, 15:18 (Ref:3789612)   #327
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If Lewis is thinking of a future music career, maybe he should take up the electric guitar? This guitar, with the red neck pick up and tartan finish should do. It may look a little ott but the same could be said about his suit.

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Old 29 Dec 2017, 16:56 (Ref:3789626)   #328
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If Lewis is thinking of a future music career, maybe he should take up the electric guitar? This guitar, with the red neck pick up and tartan finish should do. It may look a little ott but the same could be said about his suit.

Makes a change from 'sunburst', I guess.....
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Old 29 Dec 2017, 17:41 (Ref:3789640)   #329
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Makes a change from 'sunburst', I guess.....
I do like the sunburst finish, especially on Les Pauls but in this case I was thinking of Lewis and his tartan suit. Suit you sir.
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